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Thread: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

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    Default Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...



    Hello again.

    Here, i will elaborate this thread in order to summarize some little works and projects more oriented image intensifiers and "poor man ICCD" i use for terrestrial spotting and astronomical purposes (50/50 i would say in proposrtion...).

    There are mainly turning around the venerable P8079HP (from EEV: three stage cascade tube, each stage electrostatically focused) and a old but still vaillant gen III (MX10160). In combination with a watec120n+ or a old APN bridge Sony DSCHX1...

    Hoping to bring some usefull material here...

    Thank you.

    Flaneurstellaire

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    Default Re: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

    Hello.

    Here a bit more precise presentation of my NV setup:

    *** Project based on a gen 3 MX10160 from LTTON:
    purpose: hand held spotting for wide star field, large view of landscape, purely visually used.

    Objective: D= 90 mm, F= 90 mm, F/D= 1, type lens, brand: De Oude Delft, previously in radiography system (for imaging the screen from an Image Intensifer)
    Eyepiece: salvaged from a old binocular, around 20/25 mm focal length.

    *** Project based on a gen 1 cascade P8079HP from EEV:
    purpose: spotting for wide star field (hand held or tripod)+ night video.

    Objective: D= 67 mm, F= 50 mm, F/D= 0.75, type lens, brand LITTON (Profexeray)
    Eyepiece: salvaged from a old binocular, around 20/25 mm focal length.
    or
    intensifier screen coupled directly to a numeric camera Bridge Sony DSCHX1 in macro mode.


    Two videos were made with this project, and disclosed in the two following posts::


    *** Project based on a gen 1 cascade P8079HP from EEV:
    purpose: long range spotting for terrestrial view, on tripod+ night video.

    Objective: D= 100 mm, F= 700 mm, F/D= 7, type catadioptric (Maksutov), brand MTO (modified: originally F/D=10).
    intensifier screen coupled by relay lens (de magnification X 0.2, circa...) to a camera WATEC 120 n+ (monochrome 1/2" Sony chip ICX428/429).
    Equivalent focal length of the whole system (MTO + Intensifier + relay lens), for the 1/2" chip: around 130 mm.
    visualisation on LCD 5" (800X480).

    Thank you for reading.

    Flaneurstellaire
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    Default Re: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

    first video with the second project (P8079HP based)


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    Default Re: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

    Second video...

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    Default Re: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

    Hello. Have you tried any Ha narrowband filters or near IR longpass filters with your image intensifiers? The EEV Tube is very powerful for a gen 1 Tube and has more gain than most gen 3 tubes. It can handle narrowband Ha albeit with a good amount of scintillation. The same for your older mx10160 Tube.

    Recommended longpass filters - 640nm (Lumicon Night Sky H-Alpha), 642nm longpass, 650nm longpass, 685nm longpass.

    Recommended narrowband Ha - 5nm - 12nm, 35nm if you want more clusters and starfields to show through. The narrower the notch, the higher the S/N on the emission nebula itself.

    If going for galaxies and using longpass filters or no filters, use a regular mirror star diagonal for visual use or no diagonal. Dialectric coatings block upwards of 700nm.

    I don’t have a cascade tube (either EEV or Varo) but do have an Omni IV mx10160 in my Litton M942 Monocular.

    A 7nm Ha filter brings out a lump that is the Horsehead easily seen in my AT72ED refractor with a .5x 2” reducer screwed on the nosepiece of the monocular in Bortle 7 skies. Flame is bright and dark lanes easily seen as is IC434. Bigger scopes bring out more detail.

    I’ve seen some decent pictures of narrowband Ha with the cascade tube though. Not too bad and will definitely show some nebula detail on fainter nebula.
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    Default Re: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

    Hello!

    First of all, thank you for your reply Vondragonnoggin.

    I read a lot of your posts in several astro/night vision forums, with a lot of interests and learned a lot through them!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vondragonnoggin View Post
    Hello. Have you tried any Ha narrowband filters or near IR longpass filters with your image intensifiers? The EEV Tube is very powerful for a gen 1 Tube and has more gain than most gen 3 tubes. It can handle narrowband Ha albeit with a good amount of scintillation. The same for your older mx10160 Tube.
    Till now not yet for few reasons:

    - my NV systems are dedicated also for terrestrial night vision and have been designed to be used without filters... especially for terrestrial using, light pollution is, paradoxally, a bless...

    - two of these system are equipped, in a relative definitive way, with fast lens (F=90 mm, F/D=1 for the MX10160, and F=50mm, F/D=0.75 for one of my P8079HPs). Their focal plan is located at max 2 or 3 mm from the rear/field lens of each objective, rendering the insertion of filters impossible, or at least extremely delicate. And front lens are simply too big for simply settle a standard filter (2" for instance), as it can be seen in standard/commercial NV monoculars with genuine objective.

    - Budget :/.... I am now refuelling for future NV projects....

    But I would be really interested to use filters with my third project:
    - Mak (MTO 700/1000) -> P8079HP -> WATEC 120 n+.

    For this one, it would be especially easy to settle a filter, even a filter wheel, at the optical output of my MTO, and especially with this low speed F/D=7,l the filters would work greatly I am sure...

    Of course the Mak provides a slow optics, and simply used with a eyepiece, the P8079HP provides, simply and in an expectable way, a dim image, to my eye, and with a filter, in pure visual mode, I assume it would be in a kind of "photon starvation" mode for sure...

    But with the WATEC 120n+ I can play with gain, gamma, and the most interesting part: integrating time or stacking time...
    so in this configuration, with a filter, even a narrow band one, if I settle the WATEC for performing image capture of the screen of the P8079HP by integrating (few sec) or stacking (1/25 s (if I remember well) X n (to be tested gradually till obtaining the best result)), I should obtain nice image, with a quite large scale AND a good SNR... The whole system would work in a kind of crude "photon counting mode".

    I did, by the way, some tests without filter in a really black pitch environment (I would say beyond the capabilities of my gen III MX10160 equipped wit its /D=1 objective), and with this config (Mak (MTO 700/1000) -> P8079HP -> WATEC 120 n+).
    It works after few secs of integrations, or even X16 or X32 stacking, giving a quite bright and fully readable image of my scenery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vondragonnoggin View Post
    Recommended longpass filters - 640nm (Lumicon Night Sky H-Alpha), 642nm longpass, 650nm longpass, 685nm longpass.

    Recommended narrowband Ha - 5nm - 12nm, 35nm if you want more clusters and star fields to show through. The narrower the notch, the higher the S/N on the emission nebula itself.
    When I will be able to integrate filters on this system, I will follow for sure your recommendations... from other sources, I found circa the same ones.... It is cool to have a good summary of this kind of knowledge in one post, I appreciate!

    For the time being, my best filter system is ... my car... when I can, I leave my urban area for going for example in east part of Nederland, or better in the middle of Ardennes Forest for enjoying a decent black sky...and fully using the potential of my NV systems.

    Cheers and clear skies!

    Flaneurstellaire

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    Default Re: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

    I also use a mak 150 observing. It is F/12. If I use my Litton M942 (mx10160 Omni IV) with 1x objective lens afocally with a 56mm plossl (attached with digiscoping adapter), I get a focal reduction of .5x on the mak, taking it to F/6. I can get additional focal reduction by using another .5x reducer (Antares 2” .5x) on the barrel of the 56mm eyepiece. This is not the optimal spacing for the .5x reducer so it is closer to a .7x reducer at this position in the optical train. I have not drift measured the AFOV with this reduction but my guess it takes it to about F/4.

    Some explanations on the reduction when used afocally with eyepiece of longer focal length than the objective lens of the Night Vision device - https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/5...tup/?p=7371385

    Also a summarized version here - https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/5...ion/?p=8142550

    Another housing for your p8079hp if you want to use it as an eyepiece and use astronomical filters - Starlight Night Vision. DIY Night Vision Monocular

    Just in case you decide you want to get faster speed out of your mak + mx10160 NV Device or you decide you want to put that EEV Tube to use in a different housing with filters on a c-mount nosepiece.

    In any event, I have enjoyed your videos and posts. Best of luck with new project too.

    Clear Skies!
    "To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit."
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    Default Re: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vondragonnoggin View Post
    Just in case you decide you want to get faster speed out of your mak + mx10160 NV Device or you decide you want to put that EEV Tube to use in a different housing with filters on a c-mount nosepiece.

    In any event, I have enjoyed your videos and posts. Best of luck with new project too.

    Clear Skies!
    My next intensifier tube project would be to find a gen III tube (25 mm PC/screen diameter, output screen: flat FOP type) with the highest SNR as possible (ideally with a controllable gain), to couple to the PC (flat FOP type) of another P8079HP.

    Coupling will be direct screen FOP/photocathode FOP, through the using of an refractive index matching optical oil.

    - Benefiting from the highest SNR provided by the first gen III stage, and the high gain capacity provided by the second P8079HP stage.

    And then indeed, as you suggest, using a catadioptric system like a SW 127/1500 for instance (or bigger, depending my remaining...budget... ) and making a reasonable afocal reduction for falling in something around f/d=4 for instance.

    It would be my Holly Graal for sure.....

    Thank you for your support and clear skies.

    While waiting for reading you with pleasure.

    Flaneurstellaire.
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    Default Re: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

    Here is an example of relay lens I made, not exactly for focal reducing purpose, but for matching output screen of the P8079HP to the 1/2" sensor chip of the Watec... image scale reduction of x0.2, which would correspond to a focal reducing factor of also x0.2 when directly used with a standard scope.

    https://cdn0.webastro.net/uploads/mo...190c5c729b.jpg

    and embodiment IRL...

    https://cdn0.webastro.net/uploads/mo...93e51d4551.JPG

    Cheers.

    Flaneurstellaire
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    Default Re: Some experiments with image intensifiers and cams...

    Gen 3 25mm getting hard to find these days. I have two of the mx11620 gen 3 25mm tubes. They are in pvs-4’s right now.

    http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...psdphj0lhl.jpg

    Also my afocal attachment here - http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...psteafbsd0.jpg
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