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  1. #1
    Jonathan Silverlight's Avatar
    Jonathan Silverlight Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?



    I see in the January "Astronomy Now" that Adrian Berry is saying that
    the Chicxulub impact is a possible explanation for the Fermi Paradox.
    While it's true that the demise of the dinosaurs probably allowed
    mammals to rise (disregarding the image of Raquel Welch evoked by his
    writing "as long as flesh-eating dinosaurs roamed the planet, it was
    impossible for our ape-like ancestors to survive" :-) intelligence could
    take other forms.
    For instance, the idea of intelligent dinosauroids is quite respectable
    <http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/D/dinosaurintell.html> and on
    other worlds there could have been other "choices", going right back to
    their equivalent of the Cambrian Explosion.
    For instance, the evolution of giant birds in the Tertiary epoch could
    have prevented the rise of large mammals, and those birds could have
    developed our level of intelligence.

  2. #2
    L's Avatar
    L Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?



    Jonathan Silverlight wrote:

    The problem with claims such as "it was impossible....." is that they
    are so definitive that they are ludicrous. We are here, so the author
    is conceivably wrong!

    Time to wrap up my grandson's pressy! A Bresser telescope.........

    Lawrence

  3. #3
    JP LR's Avatar
    JP LR Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?

    Hello

    I apologize in advance for this bad comment:
    How do we know that Dinosaurs were not as intelligent as us?
    I don't think that much will be left of our writings, buildings and even
    computers in 60 millions years :-)

    Happy Chrismas.

    JP

    "Jonathan Silverlight" <jsilverlight@spam.merseia.fsnet.co.uk.invalid> a
    écrit dans le message de news:lIhM1HTOKWrDFwL5@merseia.freeserve.co.uk...



  4. #4
    Jonathan Silverlight's Avatar
    Jonathan Silverlight Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?

    In message <43ad69e0$0$29224$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>, JP LR
    <briton.esboar@voila.fr> writes

    We know they didn't extensively mine coal, for instance, and unless they
    were careful to build everything near a subduction zone (as required by
    the law in David Brin's Uplift stories) they were very tidy.
    But you're right, and perhaps the tragedy of their destruction was even
    bigger than we think.

  5. #5
    Pierre's Avatar
    Pierre Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?

    >Hello
    I apologize in advance for this bad comment:
    How do we know that Dinosaurs were not as intelligent as us?
    I don't think that much will be left of our writings, buildings and
    even
    computers in 60 millions years :-)

    Happy Chrismas.

    JP <

    There won't be much left, you're right. Even the longest-lived
    radio-active isotopes fabricated by man will have long-decayed into
    something less hot and harmful. No doubt, some will even have been
    recycled through subduction into new rocks. Computers, us... very
    ephemeral. The stars however.... forever!

    Pierre MK-UK


  6. #6
    Mike Williams's Avatar
    Mike Williams Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?

    Wasn't it Pierre who wrote:

    Only a tiny fraction of anything becomes fossilised, but because there
    was such a large amount of material to start with, there are quite a few
    fossils of dinosaurs, dinosaur footprints, dinosaur eggs and trees from
    that era that have been preserved for 60 million years.

    In the same way, only a small fraction of things like our pottery,
    woodwork and tyre tracks will become fossilised, but there's so much
    material around that there will be some. Once fossilised, the evidence
    could last for billions of years.

    --
    Mike Williams
    Gentleman of Leisure

  7. #7
    Pierre's Avatar
    Pierre Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?

    >Only a tiny fraction of anything becomes fossilised, but because there
    was such a large amount of material to start with, there are quite a
    few
    fossils of dinosaurs, dinosaur footprints, dinosaur eggs and trees from

    that era that have been preserved for 60 million years.

    In the same way, only a small fraction of things like our pottery,
    woodwork and tyre tracks will become fossilised, but there's so much
    material around that there will be some. Once fossilised, the evidence
    could last for billions of years.


    --
    Mike Williams
    Gentleman of Leisure<

    I suppose I should have said that for all that gets destroyed in the
    subduction process, some material will survive in uplifted areas.

    Pierre MK-UK


  8. #8
    Peter Hayes's Avatar
    Peter Hayes Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?

    JP LR <briton.esboar@voila.fr> wrote:


    If there were a mass extinction sized asteroid strike tomorrow perhaps
    much of our civilization would be preserved beneath layers of ash and
    fallout. Buildings especially would remain preserved for many millions
    of years. Certainly enough for the next intelligent species to uncover.

    So where's the leftovers from a dinosaurial civilization?

    --

    Peter

  9. #9
    JP LR's Avatar
    JP LR Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?

    Hello,

    I am not serious, but only for the pleasure of arguing:
    1) Some of the previous answers assume more or less hat our cities,
    buildings, airports and so on will under several yards of mud, and that it
    won't be difficult to find our remains.
    A large part of our civilisation in 60 millions years will be probaly under
    the earth surface because of tectonics. The map of Earth in Cretaceous is
    not quite similar to today's.
    America (both south and north) shape was very different of today's shape,
    it's the same for south east Asia. At the current speed for tectonic plates
    (one inche per year), in 60 000 000 years these plates will have move by 900
    miles horizontaly, and half of every place that is today at less than 900
    miles from a fault line, will be under Earth in 60 Millions years.
    Our dinosaurs findings are a matter of chance.

    2) For the same reason I doubt that our coal mine will be detectable in 60
    million years, even today's, 30 years after the end of exploitation many
    coal mines begin to collapse.

    3) Are buildings able to stand million years? How many hills are in fact old
    tumulus? Where are the remains of Babylon with its 80 feets large walls? How
    many of our cities are in dry desert? Do you recall the very sad landscape
    after Katrina?

    4) Would it be possible for us to recognise intelligent dinosaurs remains,
    or for aliens intelligent human remains in 60 millions years?
    For example, the arguments about size of remains as a sign of intelligence
    do not apply for beeings far greater or far smaller as us: How can a beeing
    30 yards high be impressed by a tool of 10 inches long?

    Another example: Computer electronic cards, 20 or 30 years old are without
    doubts manufactured items (10 or 20 inches long and large with identifiable
    components the size of a finger), todays electronics cards are not
    impressive at all: They are less than one inche square except for mother
    board.

    Yet nother example: We won't make so much waste in the coming centuries as
    we have done in 20th century, at least I hope so. How many chances have an
    alien in 60 million years to find an artifact from the 19, 20 or 21th
    centuries? Only one chance for 200 000 if every artifact of those three
    centuries survive to this time. Far less because not many computer, camera
    or city will have the chance to fall in a lake that will be later changed in
    coal.

    Jean-Pierre

    "Peter Hayes" <not_in_use@btinternet.com> a écrit dans le message de
    news:1h84nwp.bwnntp77n7kiN%not_in_use@btinternet.c om...



  10. #10
    Jonathan Silverlight's Avatar
    Jonathan Silverlight Guest

    Default Our unlikely existence ?

    In message <43aeb6a6$0$6655$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr>, JP LR
    <fake.address@voila.fr> writes

    Much the best reason for posting :-)


    That's exactly why I mentioned coal. Even - especially - if the mines
    collapse, they will be full of pit props and other things that can't be
    removed, including a large number of bodies :-( Also, there's no sign
    that our iron deposits are someone else's waste, though that's all we
    will leave.

    I'm still waiting for someone to counter my main argument, which is that
    if we weren't here something else could be - perhaps even something with
    an exoskeleton, if things had worked out differently. The Fermi paradox
    still holds in this situation, IMO.

 

 
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