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Thread: 13mm Nagler Type 6 Eyepiece: A Comparative Review

  1. #1
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    Default 13mm Nagler Type 6 Eyepiece: A Comparative Review



    Background
    Upon receipt of a 13mm Nagler Type 6 EP back in May, I undertook a comparative study to judge the merits of this EP versus others in my collection with a similar focal length.

    While the 13mm Nagler has a wide FOV at 82 degrees, the other eyepieces in the study (a Sirius 12.5mm Plossl [EP from an illuminated reticle] and a Sirius 10 mm Plossl) have narrower FOV’s in the 50’ish degree range. Therefore, I designed this study to be primarily concerned with resolution based upon on-axis performance. Issues of weight, cost, chromatic aberration and coma for this EP have been discussed in a shootout review conducted by Mike Salway (“Iceman”) and can be found here: 13mm Nagler Type 6 Shootout - IceInSpace
    The attached photo gives an idea of the small stature of the 13mm Nagler when lined up next to the diminutive Plossls.

    Test Methods
    The study was conducted over a two week period in May of this year from my home site (a yellow-green zone) using an 8” f/5.9 Newtonian reflector (Orion XT8i). With this scope, the 13mm gives a magnification of 92x, the 12.5mm gives 96x, and the 10mm gives 120x. Data was collected for 31 high and low contrast targets including galaxies, star clusters (globular and open), nebulae, solar system objects, and multiple stars. Galaxies, nebulae and globular clusters were typically observed with no moon present.

    Data
    The full data sheet containing observations for all test objects can be found in the attachments. Below are some representative entries. [av = averted vision; m = magnitude; s = angular separation]

    NGC 5353/5354 (small, faint [m 11-12] galaxy pair) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Mostly see one galaxy; 2nd galaxy only with av
    10 mm Sirius Plossl See two separate galaxies but shape of dimmer galaxy only with av
    13 mm Nagler Clear separation into two objects and irregular shape of each is evident directly

    M 31 (large, bright, edge-on spiral galaxy with small, round companion) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl no companion visible with av and eyepatch
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Possibly see companion with av and eyepatch
    13 mm Nagler Companion is visible with av and eyepatch

    NGC 7009 (“Saturn Nebula”) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Bluish, fuzzy oval
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Brigher blue-green vs 12.5 mm
    13 mm Nagler Blue-green, brighter and sharper detail vs 10mm

    M 3 (large globular) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Looks like a galaxy
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Decent once on axis and in focus
    13 mm Nagler Much better resolution of shape vs 10mm, 12.5mm

    M 92 (small globular) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Very few resolved core stars
    10 mm Sirius Plossl More resolved stars vs 12.5mm
    13 mm Nagler Better appreciation of shape vs 12.5mm due to more resolved core stars;
    Brighter overall vs 10mm

    Epsilon 1,2 Lyrae (the “double double”; s = 1.5, 1.9”) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Only one of the tight pairs split
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Both tight pairs split
    13 mm Nagler Both tight pairs split; stars very pinpoint

    Nu SCO (very tight double double; primary [A,B] pair s = 1.2”; companion [C,D] pair s = 2.3”) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Primary not split, but blob-like; companion barely split
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Primary tiny hint of sep’n; companion more split vs 12.5mm
    13 mm Nagler Similar to 10mm except primary is a pointy blob

    Conclusions
    The 13mm Nagler Type 6 consistently outperformed the 12.5mm Sirius Plossl. This seemed to be due to greater light transmission and production of sharper images. The 13mm Nagler performed equal to the higher magnification 10mm Plossl in most instances and was actually better than the 10mm on a few objects where resolution depended heavily on delivery of pinpoint images.

    I wholeheartedly recommend the 13mm Nagler Type 6 as a low to moderate power EP for any scope. Mine comes out of the eyepiece case every observing session (and it also Barlows very well).
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    Last edited by MarkM; 09-23-2009 at 04:27 AM.
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  3. #2
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    Default

    This is a great review!

    Mark, have you ever had a chance to look through a Meade 5000 UWA? If so, how did it match up to a Nagler?

    I'm very interested in the highest quality. Thank you again for the review

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    Default

    Excellent review! Very thorough! The Nagler line of eyepieces manufactured by Televue are some of the finest eyepieces in the world, in my opinion. Thanks for a topnotch review.

    Eric
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    Default Re: 13mm Nagler Type 6 Eyepiece: A Comparative Review

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkM View Post
    Background
    Upon receipt of a 13mm Nagler Type 6 EP back in May, I undertook a comparative study to judge the merits of this EP versus others in my collection with a similar focal length.

    While the 13mm Nagler has a wide FOV at 82 degrees, the other eyepieces in the study (a Sirius 12.5mm Plossl [EP from an illuminated reticle] and a Sirius 10 mm Plossl) have narrower FOV’s in the 50’ish degree range. Therefore, I designed this study to be primarily concerned with resolution based upon on-axis performance. Issues of weight, cost, chromatic aberration and coma for this EP have been discussed in a shootout review conducted by Mike Salway (“Iceman”) and can be found here: 13mm Nagler Type 6 Shootout - IceInSpace
    The attached photo gives an idea of the small stature of the 13mm Nagler when lined up next to the diminutive Plossls.

    Test Methods
    The study was conducted over a two week period in May of this year from my home site (a yellow-green zone) using an 8” f/5.9 Newtonian reflector (Orion XT8i). With this scope, the 13mm gives a magnification of 92x, the 12.5mm gives 96x, and the 10mm gives 120x. Data was collected for 31 high and low contrast targets including galaxies, star clusters (globular and open), nebulae, solar system objects, and multiple stars. Galaxies, nebulae and globular clusters were typically observed with no moon present.

    Data
    The full data sheet containing observations for all test objects can be found in the attachments. Below are some representative entries. [av = averted vision; m = magnitude; s = angular separation]

    NGC 5353/5354 (small, faint [m 11-12] galaxy pair) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Mostly see one galaxy; 2nd galaxy only with av
    10 mm Sirius Plossl See two separate galaxies but shape of dimmer galaxy only with av
    13 mm Nagler Clear separation into two objects and irregular shape of each is evident directly

    M 31 (large, bright, edge-on spiral galaxy with small, round companion) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl no companion visible with av and eyepatch
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Possibly see companion with av and eyepatch
    13 mm Nagler Companion is visible with av and eyepatch

    NGC 7009 (“Saturn Nebula”) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Bluish, fuzzy oval
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Brigher blue-green vs 12.5 mm
    13 mm Nagler Blue-green, brighter and sharper detail vs 10mm

    M 3 (large globular) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Looks like a galaxy
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Decent once on axis and in focus
    13 mm Nagler Much better resolution of shape vs 10mm, 12.5mm

    M 92 (small globular) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Very few resolved core stars
    10 mm Sirius Plossl More resolved stars vs 12.5mm
    13 mm Nagler Better appreciation of shape vs 12.5mm due to more resolved core stars;
    Brighter overall vs 10mm

    Epsilon 1,2 Lyrae (the “double double”; s = 1.5, 1.9”) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Only one of the tight pairs split
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Both tight pairs split
    13 mm Nagler Both tight pairs split; stars very pinpoint

    Nu SCO (very tight double double; primary [A,B] pair s = 1.2”; companion [C,D] pair s = 2.3”) 12.5 mm Sirius Plossl Primary not split, but blob-like; companion barely split
    10 mm Sirius Plossl Primary tiny hint of sep’n; companion more split vs 12.5mm
    13 mm Nagler Similar to 10mm except primary is a pointy blob

    Conclusions
    The 13mm Nagler Type 6 consistently outperformed the 12.5mm Sirius Plossl. This seemed to be due to greater light transmission and production of sharper images. The 13mm Nagler performed equal to the higher magnification 10mm Plossl in most instances and was actually better than the 10mm on a few objects where resolution depended heavily on delivery of pinpoint images.

    I wholeheartedly recommend the 13mm Nagler Type 6 as a low to moderate power EP for any scope. Mine comes out of the eyepiece case every observing session (and it also Barlows very well).
    So now that you've had it a while any updated thoughts? Thanks-Greg
    Greg Wing - Clifton Park, NY http://astropaintings.weebly.com/

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    Default Re: 13mm Nagler Type 6 Eyepiece: A Comparative Review

    Hi,
    I have had the 13mm Nagler T6 for a couple of years, and my experience is much like Mark's. It is my favourite eyepiece, sharp to the edge and very little ca (from about 70% to the edge).
    The only Meade 5000 UWA I have looked through was no-where near as good for edge sharpness, and had more ca. Plus it is huge in comparison and balance becomes an issue.
    If you want highest quality, I don't think you can go wrong with the Nagler.
    - Dean
    Last edited by DeanD; 05-31-2013 at 08:28 AM.

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    Default Re: 13mm Nagler Type 6 Eyepiece: A Comparative Review

    Thanks for the review, but do you think the ground rules were fair? Comparing a high end and expensive $330 Nagler against a lower end $47 plossl is an apples to oranges comparison. I know you made the review based on your eyepiece kit, but knowing the reputation of the Nagler the outcome for this comparison was predictable. However, you never know when a product surprises you, one that performs better than expected. I think not only making sure the FL are the same, I think the retail cost should also be close.
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    Default Re: 13mm Nagler Type 6 Eyepiece: A Comparative Review

    Quote Originally Posted by John999R View Post
    Thanks for the review, but do you think the ground rules were fair? Comparing a high end and expensive $330 Nagler against a lower end $47 plossl is an apples to oranges comparison. I know you made the review based on your eyepiece kit, but knowing the reputation of the Nagler the outcome for this comparison was predictable. However, you never know when a product surprises you, one that performs better than expected. I think not only making sure the FL are the same, I think the retail cost should also be close.
    - I agree that it is probably not "fair" in the sense that you would expect the Nagler to outperform the others (you would be pretty annoyed if it didn't!!!)- but it does show that you can get more out of any scope with better eyepieces, not just in a wider field of view, but also in contrast, sharpness, etc.
    Of course there is the law of diminishing returns, but it always nice to know there is a difference if you are willing and able to fork out more cash.

    - Dean
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    Default Re: 13mm Nagler Type 6 Eyepiece: A Comparative Review

    I've got a 13mm(or 14 i cant remebmber at the moment), meade 5000 uwv that I've been pretty happy with. I've only had the chance to look through a couple of nags, and it may have been because they were old, but i wasn't very impressed. Either way, unless you've got a lot of extra cash to throw at eye pieces, themeade 5000 uwv series is a pretty decent alternative to the nags for the price.

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    Default Re: 13mm Nagler Type 6 Eyepiece: A Comparative Review

    I have the TV 27mm Panoptic, a 7mm and a 10mm Pextax XW and would like a premium 13mm. The 14mm XW seems to not have the reputation for being not as good as the Naglar 13mm in a fast scope. I used Russels for a few years and enjoyed them, but once I compared these to premium ep's I knew it was time to upgrade.

    With folks moving into the Ethos and Delos eps, used prices for Naglars are getting better. -Greg
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