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Thread: Barlow+Ortho

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho



    Thanks not_Fritz, I have already forgotten about this old thread of mine.

    Yes, that's exactly the case with the wide field and ultrawide field astronomy eyepieces.
    They are very good, but not as smart as the 73° f=14mm little and light-weight (285g) Leica B 32x WW eyepiece for the old F/5.5 82mm Televid spotting scopes refractors

    Back to the Pentax XW.
    There is 1 more plus point for the Pentax XW: Very high transmissivity at the blue-violet, achieved with the glass materials and with the SMC multicoatings. This is important for observing most of the galaxies, - the galaxies are blue-violet, even if we can't see their color.
    But there is a curse with this advantage: You need very clear and very dark skies to profit from the enhanced transmissivity of the Pentax XW, otherwise the advantage goes lost in the sky background glow.

    Best,

    JG
    Binoculars: Leica Ultravid 7x42, 8x42HD; Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision; Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe; Docter Nobilem 7x50 Porro; Jenoptem 7x50W, 10x50W; BA8: 10.5x70, 15x85; 25x100FB, AsahiPentax 8x40, Refractors: Sky-Watcher 150mm/750mm; Leica APO Televid 82mm (25x-50x WW ASPH); EPs:Baader Classic Orthos; Fujiyama ortho, Leica B WW, ultrawide zoom ASPH, Periplan GF, HC Plan S, L; DOCTER UWA; Wild UW mil; Tele Vue Delos, Nagler Zoom, Plössls; Swarovski SW; Pentax XW; ZEISS diascope B WW T*, Carl Zeiss E-Pl; Hensoldt mil; Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader (CCD), TS; Astrophotography: AstroTrac; Leica R7: Leica 2/50, 2/90mm, 2.8/180mm lenses
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  3. #22
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho

    Quote Originally Posted by JPAG View Post
    Amazing. In that case, my Omegon LE 5mm does not have a focal length of 5mm, it actually has a longer focal length, but it works like a 5mm ortho, plossl or Erfl, right?
    Roughly, yes. And that is why adding lenses decreases the control of scattered light and decreases contrast. It's best to have fewer lenses for the best optical performance sacrificing comfort. If you 3x barlow a 18mm Ortho say, you'll be getting less performance (but more comfort) than using an ortho at the 6mm focal length.

    Now if you were to just straight barlow an ortho you will not (IMO) degrade performance as much as when you use a complex design like a Delos. The Omegon from what I understand does not compete with Delos on performance. So the performance hierarchy I'd suggest using only the eyepieces we've discussed in the thread is

    1) straight orthoscopic
    2) barlowed orthoscopic
    3) Delos
    4) Omegon

    But there is one factor we haven't discussed and that is the experience of the observer. An inexperienced observer might not be able to see the differences so clearly. Depending on your experience you might not initially see the differences. If you don't have some years of experience you might not initially see the differences we are talking about. So I think that you should keep the Omegon and use it to share views with others. If you need to develop experience observing a good way is to get an orthoscopic and swap it with your Oregon and look for the differences. That would be, I think, an excellent way to hone your observing skills and get the most out of observing sessions. It takes practice to be able to see clearly.
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  5. #23
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho

    Quote Originally Posted by John Baars View Post
    Some time ago I held a simultanous comparison between a Fujiyama 9mm and a BCO 10mm. Over here
    https://www.astroforum.nl/forum/inst...n-vergelijking

    Never mind the Dutch language, the conclusions were:

    -Transmission and contrast of the Fujiyama are a tad higher than the BCO.
    - Glow around bright star is a bit lower in the Fujiyama.
    - No internal reflections in both.
    - At high magnification astigmatism is visible at the edge in the BCO, if you want to observe airy discs.The Fujiyama does a better job in this respect, even in a f/6.7 system.
    - Minor color at the edge in a BCO, in reflecting telescopes too.
    - Spartan observing like we are used to with orthoscopics (narrow field, eyerelief) is moderate in both.
    - Observing with BCO is a bit more comfortable because of the rubber eyeshield and the wider field.

    I recommend the Fuyijama if you want a bit more quality and the BCO if you go for more comfort.

    I agree with other members that you don't really need a barlow when 6mm is the shortest you need. A 6 mm will do the job just fine.
    Baader Zeiss, Baader VIP and Televue's are the better barlows that I know of. A pity they blow a hole in your wallet.
    Yes. I have already seen in some forums that KK Fuyijama are very similar in quality to the mythical Baader Genuine Ortho, which unfortunately are no longer manufactured.
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  6. #24
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho

    Quote Originally Posted by not_Fritz_Argelander View Post
    Roughly, yes. And that is why adding lenses decreases the control of scattered light and decreases contrast. It's best to have fewer lenses for the best optical performance sacrificing comfort. If you 3x barlow a 18mm Ortho say, you'll be getting less performance (but more comfort) than using an ortho at the 6mm focal length.

    Now if you were to just straight barlow an ortho you will not (IMO) degrade performance as much as when you use a complex design like a Delos. The Omegon from what I understand does not compete with Delos on performance. So the performance hierarchy I'd suggest using only the eyepieces we've discussed in the thread is

    1) straight orthoscopic
    2) barlowed orthoscopic
    3) Delos
    4) Omegon

    But there is one factor we haven't discussed and that is the experience of the observer. An inexperienced observer might not be able to see the differences so clearly. Depending on your experience you might not initially see the differences. If you don't have some years of experience you might not initially see the differences we are talking about. So I think that you should keep the Omegon and use it to share views with others. If you need to develop experience observing a good way is to get an orthoscopic and swap it with your Oregon and look for the differences. That would be, I think, an excellent way to hone your observing skills and get the most out of observing sessions. It takes practice to be able to see clearly.
    Then a barlowed orthoscopic is better than the Omegon? Wow! Great news! And yes, I have many years of experience in observing the skies: in my early teens I had a 50mm refractor, then I had a 60mm refractor, then an 80mm refractor, and now I have a 130mm Newtonian and a new 150mm Newtonian.
    TS (GSO) 150/900 Newtonian Telescope; SkyWatcher 130/900 Newtonian Telescope; KONEX 10x50 Binoculars
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  7. #25
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho

    Quote Originally Posted by JPAG View Post
    Then a barlowed orthoscopic is better than the Omegon? Wow! Great news! And yes, I have many years of experience in observing the skies: in my early teens I had a 50mm refractor, then I had a 60mm refractor, then an 80mm refractor, and now I have a 130mm Newtonian and a new 150mm Newtonian.
    To my eyes, that's how things would stack up. Reports from others indicate that Delos is better than Omegon by a bit. On my Z12 the Orthoscopics beat Delos and barlowed Orthoscopics beat Delos by much less, it's almost a wash. Of course YMMV.

    If other folks on the thread have different take, please chime in.
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  9. #26
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho

    Quote Originally Posted by not_Fritz_Argelander View Post
    ...
    So the performance hierarchy I'd suggest using only the eyepieces we've discussed in the thread is

    1) straight orthoscopic
    2) barlowed orthoscopic
    3) Delos
    4) Omegon
    ...
    Hello all,

    this rating by n_F_A should be learned by heart, and it should be put into our WIKI or at least into sticky.
    Moreover, it is a costs saving recommendation, as you get the KK orthos for around 100 USD, https://agenaastro.com/kokusai-kohki...piece-4mm.html

    Best,

    JG
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho

    Quote Originally Posted by j.gardavsky View Post
    Hello all,

    this rating by n_F_A should be learned by heart, and it should be put into our WIKI or at least into sticky.
    Moreover, it is a costs saving recommendation, as you get the KK orthos for around 100 USD, https://agenaastro.com/kokusai-kohki...piece-4mm.html

    Best,

    JG
    I'm going to take the j.gardavsky's ride. Everyone from Europe interested in orthos: "https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p8857_Kokusai-Kohki-Fujiyama-HD-OR-9mm---a-classical-Abbe-ortho.html" ATENTION! If the link doesn't work, then do copy & paste.
    Last edited by JPAG; 11-26-2017 at 07:10 PM.
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho

    Quote Originally Posted by not_Fritz_Argelander View Post
    Roughly, yes. And that is why adding lenses decreases the control of scattered light and decreases contrast. It's best to have fewer lenses for the best optical performance sacrificing comfort. If you 3x barlow a 18mm Ortho say, you'll be getting less performance (but more comfort) than using an ortho at the 6mm focal length.

    Now if you were to just straight barlow an ortho you will not (IMO) degrade performance as much as when you use a complex design like a Delos. The Omegon from what I understand does not compete with Delos on performance. So the performance hierarchy I'd suggest using only the eyepieces we've discussed in the thread is

    1) straight orthoscopic
    2) barlowed orthoscopic
    3) Delos
    4) Omegon

    But there is one factor we haven't discussed and that is the experience of the observer. An inexperienced observer might not be able to see the differences so clearly. Depending on your experience you might not initially see the differences. If you don't have some years of experience you might not initially see the differences we are talking about. So I think that you should keep the Omegon and use it to share views with others. If you need to develop experience observing a good way is to get an orthoscopic and swap it with your Oregon and look for the differences. That would be, I think, an excellent way to hone your observing skills and get the most out of observing sessions. It takes practice to be able to see clearly.
    Hello again. One last question: on the net, I have only seen good recommendations regarding TS Optics achromatic Barlow Lens (5 stars in all reviews). Customers say it is an excellent barlow for the price (€ 34.00). Since the use of barlow lenses adds more optical surfaces and opportunities for scattered light, isn't it better to use an achromatic barlow, since it has fewer lenses than an apochromatic barlow?
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  13. #29
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho

    Quote Originally Posted by JPAG View Post
    Hello again. One last question: on the net, I have only seen good recommendations regarding TS Optics achromatic Barlow Lens (5 stars in all reviews). Customers say it is an excellent barlow for the price (€ 34.00). Since the use of barlow lenses adds more optical surfaces and opportunities for scattered light, isn't it better to use an achromatic barlow, since it has fewer lenses than an apochromatic barlow?
    A "more apochromatic" barlow need not add additional lens surfaces. The use of special types of low dispersion glass can avoid additional surfaces and give better color correction. So ED barlows might be considered. Certainly 4 element apo barlows might be a bit much. I use both achromatic barlows and TV Powermates.

    I don't know the TS barlow you're considering. I use the Baader Q barlow the TV Big Barlow and for special purposes the TV Powermates. I have some other small optics from TS (reducers) and am happy with them.
    Last edited by not_Fritz_Argelander; 11-27-2017 at 09:06 PM.
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    Default Re: Barlow+Ortho

    Quote Originally Posted by not_Fritz_Argelander View Post
    A "more apochromatic" barlow need not add additional lens surfaces. The use of special types of low dispersion glass can avoid additional surfaces and give better color correction. So ED barlows might be considered. Certainly 4 element apo barlows might be a bit much. I use both achromatic barlows and TV Powermates.

    I don't know the TS barlow you're considering. I use the Baader Q barlow the TV Big Barlow and for special purposes the TV Powermates. I have some other small optics from TS (reducers) and am happy with them.
    Ok. Thanks.
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