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Thread: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

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    Default Agena SWA or Starguider Dual



    Hello guys,

    Just some quick questions. Agena offers to models in 15mm focal lenght eyepieces: SWA which said has 70 AFOV for 45US and Starguider Dual 60AFOV for 60US.

    I wonder why the first one is cheaper if apparently is better since offers more field of view?
    What I am missing? Which one in your opinion is better?

    Thanks

    PD. These cloudy days make me look more internet than sky
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    路易斯 LG
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    Default Re: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

    One thing to remember just because it has a larger AFOV doesn't mean it should be more expensive. The Starguider I know, as its the same as the Astro-Tech Paradigm, BST Explorer and some other labels. They are comparable in design and performance to your Celestron X-Cel. These are good eyepieces for the price point, and a real nice step up from plossls.

    In comparing the Starguider 15mm to the SWA 15mm, I notice that the Starguider uses six elements while the SWA uses five elements. Also the Starguider lists a 20mm eye relief versus 13mm for the SWA. How much that means to you is of course a personal decision. The SWA is a basic Erfle design, and thus will show astigmatism in faster scopes. However, in your C6 with its f/10 optics, the SWA should work just fine. If one is on a tight budget and every dollar is critical, there certainly is nothing wrong with the SWAs even for fast scopes as long as one understands and accepts its aberrations.

    If I were buying one for my scopes at f/6 and faster, I would go with the Starguider. In fact I recently bought a used Paradigm and Starguider (15mm and 12mm) as I am putting together a lighter travel eyepiece compliment rather than taking all of my more expensive and larger ES 82s on future trips. I find the Paradigm/Starguider really excellent for the their price.
    Last edited by KT4HX; 05-16-2016 at 02:32 AM.
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    Default Re: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

    Quote Originally Posted by KT4HX View Post
    One thing to remember just because it has a larger AFOV doesn't mean it should be more expensive. The Starguider I know, as its the same as the Astro-Tech Paradigm, BST Explorer and some other labels. They are comparable in design and performance to your Celestron X-Cel. These are good eyepieces for the price point, and a real nice step up from plossls.

    In comparing the Starguider 15mm to the SWA 15mm, I notice that the Starguider uses six elements while the SWA uses five elements. Also the Starguider lists a 20mm eye relief versus 13mm for the SWA. How much that means to you is of course a personal decision. The SWA is a basic Erfle design, and thus will show astigmatism in faster scopes. However, in your C6 with its f/10 optics, the SWA should work just fine. If one is on a tight budget and every dollar is critical, there certainly is nothing wrong with the SWAs even for fast scopes as long as one understands and accepts its aberrations.

    If I were buying one for my scopes at f/6 and faster, I would go with the Starguider. In fact I recently bought a used Paradigm and Starguider (15mm and 12mm) as I am putting together a lighter travel eyepiece compliment rather than taking all of my more expensive and larger ES 82s on future trips. I find the Paradigm/Starguider really excellent for the their price.
    Thank you very much Allan for your explanation. Now I see it won't be a mistake to go with the SWA since it won't be bad at all in my slow scope. I guess one of the things I also look in an eyepiece is a wide AFOV. With the time, I've noticed that my eyes and brain catch things better with a wide FOV, but I also want to add more magnification. It is funny to mention this, but I swear I could see better with my binoculars than my telescope on my former Bortle 8 skies (Not all DSOs of course).
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    Default Re: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

    Quote Originally Posted by musiclucho View Post
    Thank you very much Allan for your explanation. Now I see it won't be a mistake to go with the SWA since it won't be bad at all in my slow scope. I guess one of the things I also look in an eyepiece is a wide AFOV. With the time, I've noticed that my eyes and brain catch things better with a wide FOV, but I also want to add more magnification. It is funny to mention this, but I swear I could see better with my binoculars than my telescope on my former Bortle 8 skies (Not all DSOs of course).
    The thing about binoculars is that there is a visual gain when using both eyes over the cyclopean view of a scope. Of course one can use a binoviewer with scopes to get that same experience. I think part of your feeling of seeing better with binoculars is because of their wider true field of view in many cases. It can give the illusion of simply seeing more. While binoculars are an excellent observing tool, they suffer from one basic drawback - obviously that they have fixed magnification. That is where the advantage of a scope really comes into its own.

    With the SWA you will get the advantage of the wider AFOV and subsequently TFOV, plus given your slower optics, it will work fine at a lower cost. Sounds like a win-win situation to me. Enjoy.
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    Default Re: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

    Quote Originally Posted by musiclucho View Post
    Hello guys,

    Just some quick questions. Agena offers to models in 15mm focal lenght eyepieces: SWA which said has 70 AFOV for 45US and Starguider Dual 60AFOV for 60US.

    I wonder why the first one is cheaper if apparently is better since offers more field of view?
    What I am missing? Which one in your opinion is better?

    Thanks

    PD. These cloudy days make me look more internet than sky
    Are you happy with your 9mm Celestron X Cel? If so I would suggest to get 15mm X-Cel. This is the EP line which worked well in all my scopes and I can recommend it with confidence and no reservations. Agena Dual ED did not perform well in my SCT, so I can't recommend it for yours. I have 3 SWA, but all 3 are 2" versions wiht longer FL, they work fine in my SCT but at lower magnifications 30x-50x. I know they tend to have a soft focus and it will most likely will be quite evident at 100x.

    If you are looking for a good wide angle EP in 15mm range, I would suggest to go with Luminos, Meade 5000 UWA or Explorer Scientific 68 / 82.
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    Default Re: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzmey View Post
    Are you happy with your 9mm Celestron X Cel? If so I would suggest to get 15mm X-Cel. This is the EP line which worked well in all my scopes and I can recommend it with confidence and no reservations. Agena Dual ED did not perform well in my SCT, so I can't recommend it for yours. I have 3 SWA, but all 3 are 2" versions wiht longer FL, they work fine in my SCT but at lower magnifications 30x-50x. I know they tend to have a soft focus and it will most likely will be quite evident at 100x.

    If you are looking for a good wide angle EP in 15mm range, I would suggest to go with Luminos, Meade 5000 UWA or Explorer Scientific 68 / 82.
    Thanks Bigzmey. I really wish there was a 15mm X cel but they jump from 12mm to 18mm. Not sure about the 12mm so I guess I will go with the 18mm. My budget is about 100US but is sad that here in China the eyepieces are still expensive. Not so much as in my country but still expensive. To give you an example, the Luminos 15mm is 1160 Yuan which in US dollars is 178US . There is not justice in that

    I can buy in US but always have to depend on somebody to send me here the stuff. And it is kinds risky sometimes, you know.
    I will see what Amazon can do for me
    路易斯 LG
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    Default Re: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

    Quote Originally Posted by musiclucho View Post
    Thanks Bigzmey. I really wish there was a 15mm X cel but they jump from 12mm to 18mm. Not sure about the 12mm so I guess I will go with the 18mm. My budget is about 100US but is sad that here in China the eyepieces are still expensive. Not so much as in my country but still expensive. To give you an example, the Luminos 15mm is 1160 Yuan which in US dollars is 178US . There is not justice in that

    I can buy in US but always have to depend on somebody to send me here the stuff. And it is kinds risky sometimes, you know.
    I will see what Amazon can do for me
    Yes, $178 is too much. I got my 15mm Luminos of Amazon for $87.

    I forgot that there is no 15mm X-Cel LX. I have used 12mm and liked it but you may get better use of 18mm.
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    Default Re: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigzmey View Post
    Agena Dual ED did not perform well in my SCT, so I can't recommend it for yours.
    Just curious, which f/l of the Dual ED were you using, and exactly what was wrong with the performance? The reason I ask is your comments certainly don't track with any others I've read from those using the Paradigms/Starguider Dual EDs in an SCT.

    I compared the Paradigm 12mm to my ES 82 11mm in my 10 inch f/5 and aside from the obvious difference in AFOV, the Paradigm compared quite favorably. Of course the ES beat it in all categories as one would and should expect, but I was very pleasantly surprised with the results using the Paradigm.
    Last edited by KT4HX; 05-17-2016 at 02:51 AM.
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    Default Re: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

    Quote Originally Posted by KT4HX View Post
    Just curious, which f/l of the Dual ED were you using, and exactly what was wrong with the performance?
    3.2mm, too much light scatter and ghosts on bright objects, Jupiter in particular, in both 8" SCT (with 0.63 reducer) and ES 102 apo scopes.

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    Default Re: Agena SWA or Starguider Dual

    I have to admit, I've seen few comments about that particular focal length of the Starguider, and notice Astro-Tech doesn't even market the Paradigm at 3.2mm, though BST does with their Explorer Dual ED series. Perhaps there is a good reason why AT chose not to. Most eyepiece lines have a weak spot. With the ES 82 its considered the 14mm for its field curvature. Typically for the Paradigm its the 25mm for some edge of field breakdown. I found the Hyperion 5mm had the ring of fire effect, etc. It sounds like there were some issues with internal blackening in your 3.2mm That has not been the case with other focal lengths of Paradigm that I've used, nor have I seen others comment about that happening in either the Paradigms or Starguiders. But in Luis' f/10, if holding to a tight budget, the Agena SWA 15mm should work great.
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