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Thread: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

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    Default Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor



    Hello all,

    this thread finalizes several tests runs in autumn 2015 – May 2016 of the BCO f=10mm and f=6mm eyepieces on selected deep sky objects through the fast 6” F/5 achromatic refractor (Synta), see http://www.astronomyforum.net/member...to-tripod.html

    Well, I have been quite curious how these both budget orthos will perform againt the expensive Pentax XW f=10mm and f=7mm, and also against the even more expensive Swarovski (45x S W) f=10.2mm unfortunately discontinued.
    The pictures of the eyepieces can be found in
    http://www.astronomyforum.net/member...sic-ortho.html
    http://www.astronomyforum.net/member...swarovski.html
    http://www.astronomyforum.net/member...pentax-xw.html

    and the technical descriptions of the BCOs and Pentax XW can be found everywhere, like in
    Teleskop-Express: Baader 1.25" Classic Orthoscopic Eyepiece Set - 6mm , 10mm , 18mm
    Oculaires Pentax XW

    The latest test has been on the galaxies NGC 2903, M66, and NGC 3628 in Leo, and on the globular clusters M53 in Coma Berenices, and on M13 in Hercules.
    Date and time: 8th May, 2016, 22:30 – 01:00 local time
    Place: backyard in suburban environment
    Observing conditions: NELM 5.5mag, as determined in Coma Berenices
    Magnifications and exit pupils:
    Pentax XW f=10mm: 75x, 2mm
    Pentax XW f=7mm: 107x, 1.4mm
    Swarovski f=10.2mm: 73.5x, 2mm
    BCO f=10mm: 75x, 2mm
    BCO f=6mm: 125x, 1.2mm

    NGC 2903 galaxy
    Bright oval glow through all tested eyepieces. The small core best resolved through the Swarovski, and the both BCOs, hardly visible through the both Pentax XW. The resolution of the core has increased through the light yellow #8 filter. A hint of the spiral arms aiming roughly north and south has been seen through the BCO f=6mm with the yellow #8 filter.
    Rating: best seen through the BCO and followed by the Swarovski, not resolved through the Pentax XW without filter.

    M66 galaxy
    Very bright through all tested eyepieces, maximum extent of the outer halo through the SkyGlow Baader filter.
    Small core best visible both through the SkyGlow Baader and light yellow #8 filters.
    Two small condensations have been best seen through the BCO f=6mm with the light yellow #8 filter, difficult to keep with direct vision, better with the averted vision.
    Rating: no significant differences between the eyepieces when the SkyGlow Baader filter, or the light yellow #8 filter, have been mounted.

    NGC 3628 galaxy
    The best pleasing view have offered the BCO f=10mm followed by the Swarovski f=10.2mm, revealing a thick streak of light. The BCO f=6mm with the light yellow #8 filter has shown some irregular mottling, leaving the dark band still unresolved.
    Rating: performance of all tested eyepieces comparable.

    M53 globular cluster
    This globular cluster has been a great surprise. The Swarovski, and the both BCOs have immediately resolved stars in the outer halo as pinpoints around a mottled core. The BCO f=6mm has not revealed significantly more stars, it has just magnified the cluster. No filters have been used.
    Rating: Swarovski and BCOs win over Pentax XW on pinpoint stars, and on bright contrast view.

    M13 globular cluster
    This one is the best globular cluster for the northern observers, never disappointing.
    I have always loved the view through the Pentax XW f=7mm, but the Swarovski f=10.2mm, and the both BCOs have surpassed my expectations, revealing cascades of bright stars overlaid on an extended halo, rich decorated with the resolved stars. And the stars have been again pinpoints, without blur. No filters have been used.
    Rating: Swarovski and BCOs win on pinpoint stars, and on bright contrast view.

    The NGC 6207 galaxy, close to the M13, has been easily seen through all tested eyepieces.

    So, the differentiators are clearly the pinpoint stars in the globular clusters, where the Swarovski and the BCOs, which are well corrected for the refractors, win over the other eyepieces, like the wide and superwide f=3.5mm, 4.5mm, 5mm, 19mm ,..., eyepieces, I have been using in the past.
    Several galaxies can be used as differentiators as well, but here it depends also on the quality of the skies.

    The BCOs, and all quality orthoscopic eyepieces in general, are expected to offer the highest transmission of light, and the best contrast. The Swarovski f=10.2mm keeps well with the BCO f=10mm, and the difference in performance between the both eyepieces is subtle, contrary to the big difference in price. It is the wide field of view, and more eye relief, you get with the Swarovski.

    Observing comfort:
    I have had no problems with the short eye relief of the BCOs. The small field of view is of course not enough for the star hopping, and significantly longer telescope focus lengths than F=750mm will definitely require a tracking mount to keep the objects in the field of view.
    Otherwise, I don’t mind the small field of view when I am looking for the small details in the deep sky objects, as the human fully concentrated vision has a very small angular spread.

    Final remarks:
    The classic orthos are complementary eyepieces to the modern eyepiece designs, and even the budget orthos, like the BCOs, can do a fine job.

    Thanks for reading,

    JG
    Binoculars: Leica Ultravid 7x42, 8x42HD; Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision; Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe; Docter Nobilem 7x50 Porro; Jenoptem 7x50W, 10x50W; BA8: 10.5x70, 15x85; 25x100FB, AsahiPentax 8x40, Refractors: Sky-Watcher 150mm/750mm; Leica APO Televid 82mm (25x-50x WW ASPH); EPs:Baader Classic Orthos; Fujiyama ortho, Leica B WW, ultrawide zoom ASPH, Periplan GF, HC Plan S, L; DOCTER UWA; Wild UW mil; Tele Vue Delos, Nagler Zoom, Plössls; Swarovski SW; Pentax XW; ZEISS diascope B WW T*, Carl Zeiss E-Pl; Hensoldt mil; Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader (CCD), TS; Astrophotography: AstroTrac; Leica R7: Leica 2/50, 2/90mm, 2.8/180mm lenses
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    Default Re: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

    An excellent review JG, I agree the BCO are quite a good eyepiece, and they perform very well in my 150mm f/8 also. Thank you for taking the time to compare them.
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    Refractors: Antares 105 f/15, Celestron 150 f/8, Stellarvue NHNG 80 f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, TS 102 f/11, UR 70 f/10, Vixen SD115s f/7.7
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    Diagonals: 2" Astro-Physics MaxBright, 2" Zeiss/ Baader prism, 2" Baader Herschel Wedge (Photo Version), 2"
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    Default Re: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

    Thanks for very thorough review. I am curious how good quality Plossls (Televue, etc.) would compare to Orthos and Pethax SW?
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    Default Re: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

    Hello Bigzmey,

    I have the 13mm, 21mm, and 25mm TV Plössls http://www.astronomyforum.net/member...2mm-japan.html , but they are 'longer' than my both BCOs, so it is difficult to compare them. But anyway, I am quite happy with the TV Plössls, even if for the the medium focus I prefer the Zeiss Diascope eyepieces, http://www.astronomyforum.net/member...506-zeiss.html

    Best,

    JG
    Binoculars: Leica Ultravid 7x42, 8x42HD; Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision; Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe; Docter Nobilem 7x50 Porro; Jenoptem 7x50W, 10x50W; BA8: 10.5x70, 15x85; 25x100FB, AsahiPentax 8x40, Refractors: Sky-Watcher 150mm/750mm; Leica APO Televid 82mm (25x-50x WW ASPH); EPs:Baader Classic Orthos; Fujiyama ortho, Leica B WW, ultrawide zoom ASPH, Periplan GF, HC Plan S, L; DOCTER UWA; Wild UW mil; Tele Vue Delos, Nagler Zoom, Plössls; Swarovski SW; Pentax XW; ZEISS diascope B WW T*, Carl Zeiss E-Pl; Hensoldt mil; Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader (CCD), TS; Astrophotography: AstroTrac; Leica R7: Leica 2/50, 2/90mm, 2.8/180mm lenses
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    Default Re: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

    I would be curious to compare an Ortho and maybe a TV Plossl to my 17.3mm Delos. I've read a number of reviews that the Delos EPs typically pull out fainter detail than other widefields, and are often stated as being on par with Orthos as planetary EPs as well as being capable of pulling in fainter details on DSOs. I have seen with my own eyes that the Delos can pull in more detail than my other widefield EPs, curious how the TV Plossls (with just 4 elements) and a good Ortho might stack up to the Delos.
    Celestron Powerseeker 114az "Little Tyke", CPC 1100 GPS “Big Daddy 2.0”
    ES82 30mm, 6.7mm, 4.7mm; Tele Vue Delos 17.3mm, 12mm; Tele Vue DeLite 9mm; Meade UWA 14mm; Assorted Budget EPs
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    Default Re: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

    I often read comments that TV Plossls provide sharper focus and better contrast than more complex EPs due to lower number of glass surfaces in them.

    Is that true in your opinion?

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    Default Re: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

    The main difference between a Delos and plossl/ortho (besides FOV) is what they are designed for. The plossl/ ortho is originally designed to be color corrected for refractors and especially the orthos to be used "straight though" this is one of the reasons they are so good at picking out fine detail as your eye is concentrating on the on axis view instead of moving around.
    Refractors: Antares 105 f/15, Celestron 150 f/8, Stellarvue NHNG 80 f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, TS 102 f/11, UR 70 f/10, Vixen SD115s f/7.7
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    Default Re: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

    I've also read comments that Orthos enjoy big slow SCTs...perhaps when I eventually get another SCT I'll have to do some experimenting and see for myself...good reason to buy more EPs, right...
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    Default Re: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

    Quote Originally Posted by Wingsfan81 View Post
    I would be curious to compare an Ortho and maybe a TV Plossl to my 17.3mm Delos. I've read a number of reviews that the Delos EPs typically pull out fainter detail than other widefields, and are often stated as being on par with Orthos as planetary EPs as well as being capable of pulling in fainter details on DSOs. I have seen with my own eyes that the Delos can pull in more detail than my other widefield EPs, curious how the TV Plossls (with just 4 elements) and a good Ortho might stack up to the Delos.
    Hello Wing,

    the third BCO has f=18mm, so you could reasonably compare it with your 17.3mm Delos.

    Most of the wide field eyepieces have 8 (+/- 1) lens elements, some of them 'thick' and highly curved.
    As all glass materials scatter away some fraction of light, the loss of transmissivity (and of contrast) will be always larger than on the 4 element eyepieces, given comparable multicoatings performance, and comparable glass material standards.

    Plössls are basically nearly symmetric double achromats, the Orthos have a field triplet followed by an eye singlet. So both of them have 4 lenses in 2 groups with just 4 glass/air interfaces.

    For some reason, most observers prefer the orthos for the short focus lengths, and the Plössls for the longer focus lengths.

    Now, the BCO is a budget version of the original Abbe ortho, if compared to the Zeiss product which costs on the second hand markets nearly or about as much as the Delos.
    So, a lunch for free is hardly to be found.

    Still on the quest for the ultimate visual experience for a small budget,

    JG
    Binoculars: Leica Ultravid 7x42, 8x42HD; Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision; Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe; Docter Nobilem 7x50 Porro; Jenoptem 7x50W, 10x50W; BA8: 10.5x70, 15x85; 25x100FB, AsahiPentax 8x40, Refractors: Sky-Watcher 150mm/750mm; Leica APO Televid 82mm (25x-50x WW ASPH); EPs:Baader Classic Orthos; Fujiyama ortho, Leica B WW, ultrawide zoom ASPH, Periplan GF, HC Plan S, L; DOCTER UWA; Wild UW mil; Tele Vue Delos, Nagler Zoom, Plössls; Swarovski SW; Pentax XW; ZEISS diascope B WW T*, Carl Zeiss E-Pl; Hensoldt mil; Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader (CCD), TS; Astrophotography: AstroTrac; Leica R7: Leica 2/50, 2/90mm, 2.8/180mm lenses
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    Default Re: Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) on an achromatic refractor

    Great comparison, I have enjoyed this very much!
    My BCO 10 always provides great views, but it is the eye relief (and FOV when using it in my 12") that causes me to use it less often, and not as a general use eyepiece. I will certainly hold on to it nevertheless.

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