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Thread: TV Nagler 22mm T4 vs ES 82 24mm

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    Default TV Nagler 22mm T4 vs ES 82 24mm



    I have a used Nagler 22mm T4 arriving soon, and intend to do some comparisons to my ES 82 24mm. Whichever one wins will remain in my case, and the other one will will be sold off. I will provide some feedback here when I get the chance to do a side by side. Stay tuned.
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    ES 82° 24mm, 18mm; Pentax XW 10mm, 7mm, 5mm
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    I received my used Nagler 22mm T4 this morning and was anxious to give it a spin against the ES 82 series 24mm EP. Since I avoided the curse and the skies were clear tonight, I set up the Z10 despite some of my neighbors having their patio lights on.

    Conditions:

    - Suburban skies, Bortle class 5 (more or less)
    - Seeing was fair to good
    - Transparency was very good to excellent
    - Sky seemed brighter than usual tonight, something I have noted before during the holiday season due to increased lighting in the neighborhoods
    - Lots of transient light from neighbors and one streetlight, so dark adaptation was severely limited
    - My age is 57 years, which does have an impact
    - Telescope used was a Zhumell Z10 fl 1250mm, f/4.92
    - Eyepieces used were the 24mm Explore Scientific 82 degree series and the Televue 22mm T4 Nagler (also 82 deg AFOV)
    - Targets used: Jupiter, M1, M31/32/110, M35, M42, Double Cluster

    Jupiter: A nice size disk with the NEB and SEB being prominent. During times of better seeing, some fainter banding swam into view. The ES at 52X and Nagler at 57X pretty much gave me identical views. No real surprises here.

    M1: The soft oval(ish) glow of the Crab was easy to locate. It appeared to me that it seemed very subtly brighter and larger in the Nagler. But, I cannot state with certainty whether this perception is correct or imagined. If there was any difference between the two EPs, I feel it was related to the slight increase in magnification rather than a quality difference.

    M31/32/110: With the 82 deg AFOV, I was able to frame all three objects. M31 was very bright and extensive, with indications of a dark lane apparent. M32 was a bright, tight round glow, and M110 was a faint elongated smear, but easy to pick out. The only difference I noted was that M110, may (emphasis on "may") have appeared subtly brighter in the Nagler. Again, as with M1, if this perception were indeed true rather than imagined, I write it off as a factor of a slight increase in magnification rather than a difference in EP quality.

    M35: This bright open cluster in Gemini was a wonderful swarm of fireflies in both EPs. I didn't note any true difference between the views in the ES or Televue.

    M42: The Orion Nebula presented itself in glorious fashion, as always, in both EPs. It was very bright and extensive, with lots of swirls and dark lanes readily apparent, as well as the usual pale greenish tint. I was unable to detect any true difference, other than what I perceived to be a very subtle brightening in the Nagler versus the ES. Again, it was so slight as to make me question whether it was real or imagined.

    Double Cluster: This classic beauty upheld it's reputation in both EPs. They filled the FOV in both and appeared like a casual spray of diamonds. No real difference between the ES and Televue noted.

    Final thoughts: Though my testing wasn't extensive, I feel I got an excellent feel for how these two EPs compare in my normal observational setting, and with my eyes. As noted above, on the fainter and/or extended objects, there appeared to be a very subtle brightening in the Nagler versus the ES. However, I cannot categorically state that was indeed a fact or just merely imagined. The slight increase in magnification may account for some of that, but then so could the mental recognition that I was using a Nagler. Whether that can have some unconscious influence on my perceptions, I really can't say, but at least it is something that I consider as a possibility. Perceived expectations can be very powerful at times.

    Both EPs have terrific fit and finish, and feel solid in your hand. As for on and off axis focus, I found them to be pretty much equal. There was some softening nearer to the field stop in both EPs in the f/4.92 Z10. However, it was not objectionable at all. Choosing an EP is a very personal decision. We each have to make our own decisions as to what we want, expect and will tolerate, as well as how deep into our pockets we can or are willing to reach.

    The bottom line for me is that I have to question whether the Nagler is worth the additional cost in my particular case. Based on my initial testing and gut reaction, the answer is no, it is not. However, each reader's mileage will almost certainly vary.
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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob
    ES AR127 f/6.5 and ES ED80 f/6 on Twilight-II Mount
    ES 82° 24mm, 18mm; Pentax XW 10mm, 7mm, 5mm
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Default

    Thank you for this report! It is exactly the sort of comparison I was looking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devildadeo View Post
    Thank you for this report! It is exactly the sort of comparison I was looking for.

    Sent from HTC Thunderbolt via Tapatalk
    Great report Alan! It is sometimes difficult to make a decision without finding enough information or research on a subject matter at times. You have definitely fulfilled that void here. Again, great report and thank you very much. Sounds like ES has quality written all over it. BTW, how much you gonna ask for that Nagler?....Lol, I kid!!!
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    Default

    Thanks for the report. I really love my Explore Scientific EPs. I believe them to be the 'best buy' of all of the 82* eyepieces.
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    Default

    Alan,
    Good comparison on the eyepieces, since you have both in hand is the major difference just in weight? Is the TV eyepieces lighter etc..? From what ive read that seems to be the major difference between them especially as you move to the low mag types with the larger barrels & glass.
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    Quote Originally Posted by astronut View Post
    Alan,
    Good comparison on the eyepieces, since you have both in hand is the major difference just in weight? Is the TV eyepieces lighter etc..? From what ive read that seems to be the major difference between them especially as you move to the low mag types with the larger barrels & glass.
    Dave
    Hi Dave. The physical comparison of the EPs are as follows:

    Nagler 22mm is 24 oz and ranges from 4-1/16 to 4-5/8 inches tall (due to the Instadjust eye guard) by 2.25 inches wide

    ES 24mm is 25.6 oz and 4.5 tall by 2.55 inches wide

    So you can see there is a bit more to the ES than the Nagler. However, I didn't find that a particular problem. Perhaps in some smaller scopes the weight might present a problem, but I think that would be moreso when you start getting to the 31mm Nagler and 30mm ES as they are substantially more hefty (both the 31mm Nagler and 30mm ES are listed at 35.2 oz).

    I am likely going to do some more comparison between them tonight. Should have less problem with neighbor's lights on a Sunday night, especially if I go out later since most of them have to go to work on Monday, whereas I do not.
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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob
    ES AR127 f/6.5 and ES ED80 f/6 on Twilight-II Mount
    ES 82° 24mm, 18mm; Pentax XW 10mm, 7mm, 5mm
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Astronomers: We look into the past to see our future.

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    Thanks!!! For me Orion Neb. was the object that really put my Nagler ahead of the Celestron Zoom in a significant way.. waiting for Orion to rise a bit sooner for showing to family.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fogfire View Post
    Thanks!!! For me Orion Neb. was the object that really put my Nagler ahead of the Celestron Zoom in a significant way.. waiting for Orion to rise a bit sooner for showing to family.
    I would certainly put the Nagler ahead of any zoom EP for sure. The 82 degree AFOV is terrific - for me at least. I know many who don't like that much, and find that about 68 to 70 deg AFOV is sufficient for them. When I got my first ES 82 series EP, it was the 18mm. I compared it to the Hyperion zoom at about 18mm and for me, it was a big wow. I was used to the zoom, but after looking into the ES 82, the zoom seemed like a soda straw. I liked the ES EPs so much so that I sold off all four of my regular Hyperions as well as the zoom. I must confess, the only reason I sprung for the Nagler was a strong urge to compare it to the ES 82 - I just had to see for myself how the ES 82s fared against the benchmark. While there are some comparisons on the net, one really has to see for themselves how it plays out in their own equipment, in their own observing conditions, and with their own eyes. Though I am going to do some more comparing, I feel I have a pretty good idea of which one I will keep and which one I will sell off. To my aging eyes, any difference between them is so subtle as to make me wonder if it's really there or imagined. I find the ES 82 series an exceedingly excellent value for the money, especially at the current price point.
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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob
    ES AR127 f/6.5 and ES ED80 f/6 on Twilight-II Mount
    ES 82° 24mm, 18mm; Pentax XW 10mm, 7mm, 5mm
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Astronomers: We look into the past to see our future.

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    Ok folks, last night I did a second session with the Nagler 22mm and ES 82 24mm. Using the Z10, transparency was excellent and seeing was very good. I didn't take an atlas out with me, so I ran through a group of various objects that I can find without using one.

    M47 & M50 in Monoceros: Both clusters were framed very nicely and presented beautiful splashes of stars. No real difference in appearance between the two EPs.

    M44 & M67 in Cancer: M67 was a nice and compact spray of stars in both EPs. M44, being more extended in nature was framed a little better in the 24mm since it was slightly less magnification. No true differences other than that.

    NGC2392 (Eskimo Nebula) in Gemini: The mag 10 planetary was easy in both EPs. With direct vision, the central star was prominent, overshadowing the nebula. With averted vision, the nebula took center stage, swelling nicely. No differences noted between the two EPs.

    M79 in Lepus: This small mag 8 globular (about half the angular size of M13) was easy to pick up despite being in my southern light dome. This is one object that I noted a minor difference between the two EPs. Interestingly enough, with the ES the core appeared more stellar in nature, whereas with the Nagler the core seemed more diffuse. I don't really know why, but neither view was objectionable.

    NGC2841 in Ursa Major: This 9.3 mag galaxy appeared as a faint smudge, with one foreground star imposed on it's soft glow. The view through both EPs were the same.

    M108 in Ursa Major: This 10.1 mag galaxy was a faint streak of light. It appeared the same in both EPs.

    M97 (Owl Nebula) in Ursa Major: This mag 11.2 ghostly orb was readily apparent, and there was no differences noted when swapping between the two EPs.

    M51 (Whirlpool Nebula) in Canes Venatici: This face-on spiral was very low in the sky, but readily apparent. I could see the core of both M51 and it's companion NGC5194 as bright points, surrounded by a very faint halo of light from M51's spiral arms. Both EPs rendered the same appearance.

    M1 (Crab Nebula) in Taurus: This is the only object that I consciously returned to from the previous night. I wanted to re-visit my perception that the Nagler provided a subtly larger and brighter image. However, on looking at M1 again, I didn't find that to be the case, and I believe it was just an imagined improvement.

    One thing I did notice in this comparison, I found the focus snap was slightly better with the ES. I define focus snap as the ability to snap into focus with the least amount of fiddling with the fine-tuning knob of the focuser. I found the ES was just slightly better in that regard.

    My final conclusion is that for me personally, I cannot justify the extra cost of the Nagler 22mm over the ES 24mm. I found the ES a very good match in quality and performance to the Nagler.
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    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Astro Sky 17.5 f/4.5 Dob || Apertura AD12 f/5 Dob || Zhumell Z10 f/4.9 Dob
    ES AR127 f/6.5 and ES ED80 f/6 on Twilight-II Mount
    ES 82° 24mm, 18mm; Pentax XW 10mm, 7mm, 5mm
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Astronomers: We look into the past to see our future.

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