Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13
Like Tree51Likes

Thread: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

  1. #1
    Star Rider's Avatar
    Star Rider is offline HYPER GIANT
    Points: 21,170, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 3.0%
    Achievements:
    365 Days+ Registered Achievement!50 Posts Achievement!5 Threads Achievement!First 1000 Experience Points200+ Posts Achievement!
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South East of Disorder, Redlands California
    Posts
    2,274
    Points
    21,170
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    496
    Thanked 853x 685 Posts
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved



    This crossed my path today NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved | Astronomy.com I thought it worthy of sharing. It provokes some questions in my mind and the question posted by a reader is a good one.
    I’d really like to see nFA weight in on this one.

    Clear skies,
    Bob
    CGEM-DX with Hyper-tune, CGEM with Hyper-tune, C-1100 EDGE on loan from a very good friend, C-9.25, E/S AR-152 ACRO, E/S 127 APO, OPT 6" RC, AT-72mm (For Wide field), Stellar Vue Raptor 90mm APO, E/S Comet Hunter, Orion SSAG, Canon T3i, STF-8300C, 9 eye pieces from 6.7* to 35*, various accessories, focus masks, power tank...the normal stuff.

    Keep looking up, we can't be the only ones.

  2. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Star Rider For This Useful Post:

    AbbN (01-13-2018),DaltonSkyGazer (01-13-2018),helicon64 (01-13-2018),ic_1101 (01-13-2018),Lowjiber (01-13-2018),not_Fritz_Argelander (01-13-2018),SpyderwerX (01-13-2018)

  3. #2
    not_Fritz_Argelander's Avatar
    not_Fritz_Argelander is online now HYPER GIANT
    Points: 144,516, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    365 Days+ Registered Achievement!2 Posts Achievement20 Posts Achievement!750 Days+ Registered Achievement!First 1000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Thread Award
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    US
    Posts
    17,511
    Points
    144,516
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    6,803
    Thanked 39,365x 12,337 Posts
    Blog Entries
    39
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

    OK. The question is as posted by the reader:

    Is it possible for there to be an object of sufficient mass and a sufficient distance away, at the time the light we are now seeing moved through the lens to form a gravitational lense for something this old, if all matter was began a big bangs singularity not much earlier? Wouldn't the mass that formed the gravitational lense have to have traveled very, very fast and be even older to have been in the right spot when the light passed by?
    I'll not comment much until later on how "big bang singularity" is an oversimplification, done that many times. But the lensing object needn't have any constraint on it's speed. It just needs to be at the right place along the line of sight to make the lens work. That does not place any constraint on it's age or speed at all.

    Now this is mind reading, which is dangerous to do. But I'd guess that the reader's question arises from the misconception that the "big bang singularity" is localized at a particular point in space. But the universe is infinite and flat and always has been according to the best available current measurements. So this "big bang singularity" is not happening "at a point" as some popularizers misleadingly state, but it happens everywhere.

    So the issue of age and speed (coming from the bang?) is irrelevant. The universe is homogenous everywhere and looks the same in all directions. So the bang is also everywhere and not just at a point.
    Past items italicized. Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80 (mods for white light solar), SV ED80 f7, Orion and SW 80 and 120 ED doublets, Orion 120 f8.3, Tasco 30x30, Edmund 40; Newtonians: AT 8”f4, OC 8”f6.3, Z12 f5, self made 6” f9, Orion XX14i; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66, Orion 102 MakCas f12.7, Celestron 9.25 SCT and 9.25 Edge. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, TV Nagler, ES100s. Mounts: Orion Sirius EQG, Star Seeker III, Celestron CG5, Vixen Porta II, Losmandy G11

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to not_Fritz_Argelander For This Useful Post:

    DaltonSkyGazer (01-13-2018),Gabby76 (01-13-2018),ic_1101 (01-13-2018),Lowjiber (01-13-2018),Star Rider (01-13-2018)

  5. #3
    not_Fritz_Argelander's Avatar
    not_Fritz_Argelander is online now HYPER GIANT
    Points: 144,516, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    365 Days+ Registered Achievement!2 Posts Achievement20 Posts Achievement!750 Days+ Registered Achievement!First 1000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Thread Award
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    US
    Posts
    17,511
    Points
    144,516
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    6,803
    Thanked 39,365x 12,337 Posts
    Blog Entries
    39
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

    PS The same work was reported on the Astrophysics Forum in the thread:

    Hubble Spitzer jointly study 13.3 Billion look back time galaxy
    Past items italicized. Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80 (mods for white light solar), SV ED80 f7, Orion and SW 80 and 120 ED doublets, Orion 120 f8.3, Tasco 30x30, Edmund 40; Newtonians: AT 8”f4, OC 8”f6.3, Z12 f5, self made 6” f9, Orion XX14i; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66, Orion 102 MakCas f12.7, Celestron 9.25 SCT and 9.25 Edge. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, TV Nagler, ES100s. Mounts: Orion Sirius EQG, Star Seeker III, Celestron CG5, Vixen Porta II, Losmandy G11

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to not_Fritz_Argelander For This Useful Post:

    helicon64 (01-13-2018),ic_1101 (01-13-2018),Star Rider (01-13-2018)

  7. #4
    not_Fritz_Argelander's Avatar
    not_Fritz_Argelander is online now HYPER GIANT
    Points: 144,516, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    365 Days+ Registered Achievement!2 Posts Achievement20 Posts Achievement!750 Days+ Registered Achievement!First 1000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Thread Award
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    US
    Posts
    17,511
    Points
    144,516
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    6,803
    Thanked 39,365x 12,337 Posts
    Blog Entries
    39
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

    PS This "big bang singularity at a point" thing is a real annoying conceptual blunder. Let me try a slightly different way to show that is mathematically wrong.

    The expansion of the universe is simply a straight multiplication by a scale factor of all the distances. So if we look back in time we see the infinite universe at smaller and smaller scale factors. If you go back to when the universe was half as big and it is infinite now, it's still infinite, the density is just ~8 times greater if it is flat. Keep going back further and no matter what the scale factor is, call it a(t) where t is the age of the universe then (1/a(t)) * infinity is still infinity. There is no way to transition from a point singularity to an infinite universe.
    Past items italicized. Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80 (mods for white light solar), SV ED80 f7, Orion and SW 80 and 120 ED doublets, Orion 120 f8.3, Tasco 30x30, Edmund 40; Newtonians: AT 8”f4, OC 8”f6.3, Z12 f5, self made 6” f9, Orion XX14i; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66, Orion 102 MakCas f12.7, Celestron 9.25 SCT and 9.25 Edge. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, TV Nagler, ES100s. Mounts: Orion Sirius EQG, Star Seeker III, Celestron CG5, Vixen Porta II, Losmandy G11

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to not_Fritz_Argelander For This Useful Post:

    bladekeeper (01-13-2018),ic_1101 (01-13-2018),Star Rider (01-13-2018)

  9. #5
    bladekeeper's Avatar
    bladekeeper is offline Super Moderator
    Points: 251,555, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.9%
    Achievements:
    2 Posts Achievement20 Posts Achievement!5 Threads Achievement!50 Posts Achievement!200+ Posts Achievement!
    Awards:
    Activity Award
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Lowell, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    33,918
    Points
    251,555
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    25,062
    Thanked 15,258x 10,422 Posts
    Downloads
    8
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by not_Fritz_Argelander View Post
    PS This "big bang singularity at a point" thing is a real annoying conceptual blunder. Let me try a slightly different way to show that is mathematically wrong.

    The expansion of the universe is simply a straight multiplication by a scale factor of all the distances. So if we look back in time we see the infinite universe at smaller and smaller scale factors. If you go back to when the universe was half as big and it is infinite now, it's still infinite, the density is just ~8 times greater if it is flat. Keep going back further and no matter what the scale factor is, call it a(t) where t is the age of the universe then (1/a(t)) * infinity is still infinity. There is no way to transition from a point singularity to an infinite universe.
    I like it. Thanks for this explanation, not_Fritz!

    I understand it, but regardless...

    Mind. Blown.

    Bryan
    Scopes: Apertura AD12 f/5; Celestron C6-R f/8; ES AR127 f/6.4; ES AR127 f/9.4; ES AR102 f/9.8; iOptron MC90 f/13.3; Orion ST80A f/5; Celestron Premium 80 f/11.4; Celestron C80 f/11.4; Meade NG60 f/10
    Mounts: Celestron AVX; Bresser EXOS-2; ES Twilight I; ES Twilight II; iOptron Cube-G; AZ3/wood tripod; Vixen Polaris
    Eyepieces:
    GSO Super Plössl 40mm, 32mm, 15mm, 9mm; ES 82° Series; GSO Superview 30mm; Celestron Plössl 26mm, 20mm; ES 70° 25mm; ES Plössl 25mm; Vite Aspheric 23mm, 10mm, 4mm; Orion Expanse 20mm, 9mm; KK Ortho 18mm; Bresser 70° 15mm; BCO 10mm; ES 62° 9mm; Zhumell Z Series 5mm
    Binoculars: Pentax PCF WP II 10×50, Bresser Corvette 10×50, Bresser Hunter 16×50 and 8×40, Garrett Gemini 12×60 LW, Gordon 10×50, Apogee 20×100
    Observing: Herschel Tallies: H1 = 400/400 H2 =322/400 H3 = 222/300; 3,082 observations of 1,788 objects; Song in my head: Cowboy Junkies - Sweet Jane

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Days since last observing session: 1; Sessions in last 30 days:11; Last Night's Excuse: Some soupy lunar snaps.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to bladekeeper For This Useful Post:

    helicon64 (01-13-2018)

  11. #6
    not_Fritz_Argelander's Avatar
    not_Fritz_Argelander is online now HYPER GIANT
    Points: 144,516, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    365 Days+ Registered Achievement!2 Posts Achievement20 Posts Achievement!750 Days+ Registered Achievement!First 1000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Thread Award
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    US
    Posts
    17,511
    Points
    144,516
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    6,803
    Thanked 39,365x 12,337 Posts
    Blog Entries
    39
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

    Thanks for getting it. The reason the expansion is just a multiplication of distances is technical, it's what the Friedman-Lemaitre-Robertson-Walker solution of General Relativity says must be the case. It's the only solution that is homogenous and isotropic: expansion is just multiplication by a scale factor.

    The reverse argument is that if you start with a point of zero extent, there is no number you can multiply zero by to get anything larger than zero, let alone the observed infinite extent!
    Past items italicized. Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80 (mods for white light solar), SV ED80 f7, Orion and SW 80 and 120 ED doublets, Orion 120 f8.3, Tasco 30x30, Edmund 40; Newtonians: AT 8”f4, OC 8”f6.3, Z12 f5, self made 6” f9, Orion XX14i; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66, Orion 102 MakCas f12.7, Celestron 9.25 SCT and 9.25 Edge. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, TV Nagler, ES100s. Mounts: Orion Sirius EQG, Star Seeker III, Celestron CG5, Vixen Porta II, Losmandy G11

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to not_Fritz_Argelander For This Useful Post:

    Gabby76 (01-13-2018),ic_1101 (01-13-2018)

  13. #7
    Slabs1960's Avatar
    Slabs1960 is offline SUPER GIANT
    Points: 18,867, Level: 94
    Level completed: 92%, Points required for next Level: 33
    Overall activity: 27.0%
    Achievements:
    2 Posts Achievement20 Posts Achievement!5 Threads Achievement!50 Posts Achievement!Gallery Achievement!
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Oranjemund, Namibia
    Posts
    1,434
    Points
    18,867
    Level
    94
    Thanks
    264
    Thanked 1,062x 493 Posts
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

    call it a(t) where t is the age of the universe then (1/a(t)) * infinity is still infinity. There is no way to transition from a point singularity to an infinite universe.
    When I was at university, years ago, I had a math's professor who specialized in mathematics of infinity. He gave me some notes. I could never get my head around it
    Philip
    Scopes: Orion ST80-A, Celestron NexStar 6SE, Celestron 6" Refractor. Other: Celestron Focal Reducer/ Corrector (F6.3)
    Mounts: Celestron Advanced VX, Celstron SE Single Fork Mount, Manfrotto Camera Tripod. Cameras: Canon 1000D, Canon 1100D. Binos: Celestron SkyMaster 15x70.


    Astronomy compels the soul to look upwards and leads us from this world to another – Plato

  14. #8
    not_Fritz_Argelander's Avatar
    not_Fritz_Argelander is online now HYPER GIANT
    Points: 144,516, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    365 Days+ Registered Achievement!2 Posts Achievement20 Posts Achievement!750 Days+ Registered Achievement!First 1000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Thread Award
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    US
    Posts
    17,511
    Points
    144,516
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    6,803
    Thanked 39,365x 12,337 Posts
    Blog Entries
    39
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by Slabs1960 View Post
    When I was at university, years ago, I had a math's professor who specialized in mathematics of infinity. He gave me some notes. I could never get my head around it
    The best way to deal with infinities is to go back to tha basics, two sets are equal if you can make a 1-1 correspondence between them and go from there....

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to not_Fritz_Argelander For This Useful Post:

    DaltonSkyGazer (01-14-2018),Gabby76 (01-14-2018),helicon64 (01-13-2018),ic_1101 (03-18-2018),Slabs1960 (01-13-2018)

  16. #9
    helicon64's Avatar
    helicon64 is offline Indy the cat
    Points: 114,985, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 61.0%
    Achievements:
    2 Posts Achievement20 Posts Achievement!50 Posts Achievement!Ghost Achievement! Averaging 5+ posts a day!200+ Posts Achievement!
    Awards:
    Activity & Post & Thread Master
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Berkeley, CA
    Posts
    19,623
    Points
    114,985
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    20,350
    Thanked 5,774x 4,633 Posts
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

    A bit hard to get my head around but I think I understand it now.
    Michael
    Obsession 18" f/4.2, Zhumell Z10 f/4.9, ES AR 152 refractor f/6.5, Celestron Skymaster 15x70's , Bushnell 10x50's
    9x50mm RACI finder, Telrad, Rigel Quickfinder, 30mm Erfle, 9mm Plossl, and full line of ES eyepieces
    Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is Limited. Imagination Circles the World... A. Einstein


  17. #10
    not_Fritz_Argelander's Avatar
    not_Fritz_Argelander is online now HYPER GIANT
    Points: 144,516, Level: 100
    Level completed: 0%, Points required for next Level: 0
    Overall activity: 99.7%
    Achievements:
    365 Days+ Registered Achievement!2 Posts Achievement20 Posts Achievement!750 Days+ Registered Achievement!First 1000 Experience Points
    Awards:
    Thread Award
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    US
    Posts
    17,511
    Points
    144,516
    Level
    100
    Thanks
    6,803
    Thanked 39,365x 12,337 Posts
    Blog Entries
    39
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: NASA images the most distant galaxy ever resolved

    Quote Originally Posted by helicon64 View Post
    A bit hard to get my head around but I think I understand it now.
    Glad to hear. The difficulty of explaining this is surely why popular presenters oversimplify the situation to a falsehood. Singularities aren't real, they are mathematical artifacts of having a theory that is incomplete in some way.
    480-277y likes this.
    Past items italicized. Scopes: Refractors: Orion ST80 (mods for white light solar), SV ED80 f7, Orion and SW 80 and 120 ED doublets, Orion 120 f8.3, Tasco 30x30, Edmund 40; Newtonians: AT 8”f4, OC 8”f6.3, Z12 f5, self made 6” f9, Orion XX14i; Catadioptrics: VMC110L, Intes MK66, Orion 102 MakCas f12.7, Celestron 9.25 SCT and 9.25 Edge. EPs: KK Fujiyama Orthoscopics, 2x Vixen NPLs (40-6mm) and BCOs, Baader Mark IV zooms, TV Panoptics, Delos, TV Nagler, ES100s. Mounts: Orion Sirius EQG, Star Seeker III, Celestron CG5, Vixen Porta II, Losmandy G11

 

 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. What's the most distant DSO you've resolved in the eyepiece?
    By Gearloose in forum General Stargazing Forum
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 03-26-2015, 03:21 AM
  2. in a galaxy far far away.... (most distant yet discovered)
    By chas53 in forum Astrophysics Forum
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 10-26-2013, 12:25 AM
  3. most distant galaxy cluster seen, in IR
    By Widdekind in forum Astrophysics Forum
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-12-2012, 01:04 AM
  4. Most distant galaxy found
    By DaveW in forum General Astronomy Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-23-2010, 04:10 PM
  5. NASA's Swift satellite images a galaxy ablaze with starbirth
    By mathew.berger1@gmail.com in forum Amateur Astronomy Forum
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 02-29-2008, 12:21 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0
Powered by vBulletin®
All times are GMT. The time now is 10:26 AM.