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Thread: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?



    Quote Originally Posted by JAGoodin View Post
    Nice links, so do you see it more plausible if one were to try and terraform a planet to terraform Venus over Mars? Also found this link, its a bit old but was a really good read

    Was Venus Alive? 'The Signs are Probably There' | Space.com
    The big problem with Venus is that the atmosphere would be very hostile for us not to mention the extreme temperature.
    Quote from link below -
    The Atmosphere of Venus
    The atmosphere of Venus is composed of about 96% carbon dioxide, with most of the remainder being nitrogen. The atmosphere appears to be relatively clear until the cloud deck starts about 50 km above the surface. As noted in the previous section, the clouds are composed of sulphuric acid and various other corrosive compounds, and the atmosphere contains little water.
    The pressure of the atmosphere is about 90 times that of the Earth at the surface, and the surface temperatures on Venus are around 500 degrees Celsius, exceeding that of Mercury and hot enough to melt soft metals. Calculations indicate that for the temperatures to be so high there must be a mechanism in the Venusian atmosphere that traps solar radiation very effectively. As we will see in the next section, these rather remarkable properties of the atmosphere are thought to be a consequence of a runaway greenhouse effect.
    There are high-velocity winds in the upper atmosphere, but the atmosphere below the cloud deck appears to be relatively stagnant, with only very weak winds blowing at the surface. Convection driven by differential solar heating should give rise to winds of only a few meters per second, so the high velocity upper level winds, and the contrasting stagnation of the lower atmosphere, are not well understood.



    The Atmosphere of Venus
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

    Quote Originally Posted by olddogg60 View Post
    Edit: Mars doesn't have a magnetic field to protect an atmosphere from the solar wind. So any attempt to create an atmosphere would be soon removed.
    That's why we would produce atoms of water and oxygen from the Higgs boson, the "god particle" and primordial material of the universe and teleport it constantly to the Martian environment. We would probably create a regeneration envelope around the whole planet. We might have to use some nuclear waste resources for the process.
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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

    Yea I understand that Venus' atmosphere is toxic, but what I was wondering is if it would be easier to start to terraform this planet rather than Mars? I wonder if you could somehow puncture the atmosphere letting loose some of the carbon dioxide. Again I know this would be hard, just a thought though. Ive always been intrigued by Venus and it seems that it doesnt get much attention.

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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

    I read somewhere a while ago that if Venus was stripped of its atmosphere and orbit moved to that of earths it would need about 25000 years for the planet to cool enough to work with. In 25000 years we might be able to fly to another earth like planet in another solar system. The unfortunate scenario, I believe, is before then we will have extinguished the earths resources and polluted it. Terra-forming Venus would make for a cool movie though, especially if the vast time spans were accounted for.

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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa 44th Lat NY View Post
    That's why we would produce atoms of water and oxygen from the Higgs boson, the "god particle" and primordial material of the universe and teleport it constantly to the Martian environment. We would probably create a regeneration envelope around the whole planet. We might have to use some nuclear waste resources for the process.
    The Higg's Boson gives mass to elementary particles is the theory, but the name 'God Particle' is another unfortunate naming attempt. The Higgs Boson can fill a gap in the understanding of elementary particles.

    6. The Higgs boson isn’t really all that important. The boson is just some particle. What’s important is something called the Higgs mechanism. What really gets people excited is the Higgs field, from which the particle arises. Modern physics — in particular, quantum field theory — tells us that all particles are just vibrations in one field or another. The photon is a vibration in the electromagnetic field, the electron is a vibration in the electron field, and so on. (That’s why all electrons have the same mass and charge — they’re just different vibrations in the same underlying field that fills the universe.) It’s the Higgs field, lurking out there in empty space, that makes the universe interesting. Finding the boson is exciting because it means the field is really there. This is why it’s hard to explain the importance of the Higgs in just a few words — you first have to explain field theory!

    8. Your own mass doesn’t come from the Higgs. We were careful in the previous point to attribute the mass of “elementary” particles to the Higgs mechanism. But most of the mass in your body comes from protons and neutrons, which are not elementary particles at all. They are collections of quarks held together by gluons. Most of their mass comes from the interaction energies of those quarks and gluons, and would be essentially unchanged if the Higgs weren’t there at all. So without the Higgs, we could still have massive protons and neutrons, although their properties would be very different.

    Top Ten Amazing Higgs Boson Facts! | Cosmic Variance | Discover Magazine
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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2orthern2ights View Post
    I read somewhere a while ago that if Venus was stripped of its atmosphere and orbit moved to that of earths it would need about 25000 years for the planet to cool enough to work with. In 25000 years we might be able to fly to another earth like planet in another solar system. The unfortunate scenario, I believe, is before then we will have extinguished the earths resources and polluted it. Terra-forming Venus would make for a cool movie though, especially if the vast time spans were accounted for.
    Why would we need to strip its atmosphere or even move it? Its location is fine and stripping the atmosphere would be more work than just fixing it.

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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

    Quote Originally Posted by olddogg60 View Post
    The Higg's Boson gives mass to elementary particles is the theory, but the name 'God Particle' is another unfortunate naming attempt. The Higgs Boson can fill a gap in the understanding of elementary particles.

    6. The Higgs boson isn’t really all that important. The boson is just some particle. What’s important is something called the Higgs mechanism. What really gets people excited is the Higgs field, from which the particle arises. Modern physics — in particular, quantum field theory — tells us that all particles are just vibrations in one field or another. The photon is a vibration in the electromagnetic field, the electron is a vibration in the electron field, and so on. (That’s why all electrons have the same mass and charge — they’re just different vibrations in the same underlying field that fills the universe.) It’s the Higgs field, lurking out there in empty space, that makes the universe interesting. Finding the boson is exciting because it means the field is really there. This is why it’s hard to explain the importance of the Higgs in just a few words — you first have to explain field theory!

    8. Your own mass doesn’t come from the Higgs. We were careful in the previous point to attribute the mass of “elementary” particles to the Higgs mechanism. But most of the mass in your body comes from protons and neutrons, which are not elementary particles at all. They are collections of quarks held together by gluons. Most of their mass comes from the interaction energies of those quarks and gluons, and would be essentially unchanged if the Higgs weren’t there at all. So without the Higgs, we could still have massive protons and neutrons, although their properties would be very different.

    Top Ten Amazing Higgs Boson Facts! | Cosmic Variance | Discover Magazine
    That's it exactly. So, we have found with these new affirmations that the math formulas of quantum physics are accurately expressing the universe. I didn't mean to put so much emphasis on the particles themselves, but conjure up the principles being supported so well as to predict their existence. And quantum physics shows that it isn't true that matter can't be created or destroyed, it is created and destroyed all the time. I'm not sure if that statement is supported by physicists. But should we get ahead of ourselves and say we can harness the creating of matter, then such things as terraforming uninhabitable worlds for our uses becomes very possible. We can apply it to creating a supply of atmosphere on Mars and balance that atmosphere to not only make it habitable, but also entrap heat in the case of Mars to moderate the temperature. There is a lot proving to be done to get to that point, but it brings us beyond the energy demands of transporting materials to the planets when we can manufacture them onsight. Teleportation has been achieved, at the particle level, and if we look to the applications if this technology develops the way we hope, we have yet another energy effecient vehicle for terraforming and traveling to other worlds.
    So, the exercise of "can we terraform Mars and Venus" is a fantastic notion, but perhaps the basis of the technology we would use to do that is already being conceived now.
    olddogg60 and JAGoodin like this.
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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa 44th Lat NY View Post
    That's it exactly. So, we have found with these new affirmations that the math formulas of quantum physics are accurately expressing the universe. I didn't mean to put so much emphasis on the particles themselves, but conjure up the principles being supported so well as to predict their existence. And quantum physics shows that it isn't true that matter can't be created or destroyed, it is created and destroyed all the time. I'm not sure if that statement is supported by physicists. But should we get ahead of ourselves and say we can harness the creating of matter, then such things as terraforming uninhabitable worlds for our uses becomes very possible. We can apply it to creating a supply of atmosphere on Mars and balance that atmosphere to not only make it habitable, but also entrap heat in the case of Mars to moderate the temperature. There is a lot proving to be done to get to that point, but it brings us beyond the energy demands of transporting materials to the planets when we can manufacture them onsight. Teleportation has been achieved, at the particle level, and if we look to the applications if this technology develops the way we hope, we have yet another energy effecient vehicle for terraforming and traveling to other worlds.
    So, the exercise of "can we terraform Mars and Venus" is a fantastic notion, but perhaps the basis of the technology we would use to do that is already being conceived now.
    This is amazing, I would hope some of us are still around when they begin the process

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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

    Quote Originally Posted by Melissa 44th Lat NY View Post
    That's it exactly. So, we have found with these new affirmations that the math formulas of quantum physics are accurately expressing the universe. I didn't mean to put so much emphasis on the particles themselves, but conjure up the principles being supported so well as to predict their existence. And quantum physics shows that it isn't true that matter can't be created or destroyed, it is created and destroyed all the time. I'm not sure if that statement is supported by physicists. But should we get ahead of ourselves and say we can harness the creating of matter, then such things as terraforming uninhabitable worlds for our uses becomes very possible. We can apply it to creating a supply of atmosphere on Mars and balance that atmosphere to not only make it habitable, but also entrap heat in the case of Mars to moderate the temperature. There is a lot proving to be done to get to that point, but it brings us beyond the energy demands of transporting materials to the planets when we can manufacture them onsight. Teleportation has been achieved, at the particle level, and if we look to the applications if this technology develops the way we hope, we have yet another energy effecient vehicle for terraforming and traveling to other worlds.
    So, the exercise of "can we terraform Mars and Venus" is a fantastic notion, but perhaps the basis of the technology we would use to do that is already being conceived now.
    The thing is we had better fix this atmosphere so we can be around long enough to build those atmospheres. It is interesting to think about what might be accomplished in the future. You are right about it being a fantastic notion but that sometimes is what great things are made of.
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    Default Re: Venus rover possible? Terraforming 2 planets at once?

    Quote Originally Posted by olddogg60 View Post
    Mars doesn't have a magnetic field to protect an atmosphere from the solar wind. So any attempt to create an atmosphere would be soon removed.
    Well, since we're talking about futuristic stuff here, I'd like to point out that we could "easily" speed up the rotation of the Red Planet in the futures, giving it enough spin to have a decent magnetic field

 

 
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