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  1. #1
    John Charles's Avatar
    John Charles Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure



    Browsing through an issue of Aviation Week, May 17, 1965 (recently
    bought from a local antique store), I found an article in the
    "Industry Observer" on p. 23:

    "NASA is considering the possibility of launching two manned Gemini
    spacecraft within a few days of each other so that the two would
    operate concurrently in space for a day or two. If approved, the plan
    probably would not be implemented until late in the Gemini program.
    With only one Gemini launch stand at Cape Kennedy, NASA would likely
    have to erect and check out the second vehicle first, then lower and
    store it until the first vehicle had flown. This approach would
    require checkout equipment during the storage of the second
    vehicle--one of the biggest hurdles in this plan."

    So apparently the "GT-7/6" joint mission was not dreamed up within
    hours of the GTA-6 launch hold-kill in October 1965, but was actually
    already under analysis for at least 5 months. (This is news to me.)

    John Charles
    Houston, Texas

  2. #2
    Terrell Miller's Avatar
    Terrell Miller Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure

    "John Charles" <johnbcharles@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
    news:71e077a6.0310112003.57912f75@posting.google.c om...


    Hadn't heard that, thanks for passing it along. Fits in with what we know
    about how NASA prepared for mission contingencies: little or no real
    "improvisation", just reaching into a binder to review the results of a
    prior sim or think-piece.

    --
    Terrell Miller
    millerto@bellsouth.net

    "In the early days as often
    as not the (rocket) exploded on or near the launch pad; that
    seldom happens any longer."
    -Columbia Accident Investigation Board report, vol.1 p.19



  3. #3
    Henry Spencer's Avatar
    Henry Spencer Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure

    In article <tfdib.5516$BI4.2902@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
    Terrell Miller <millerto@bellsouth.net> wrote:

    Well, yes and no. The problem was that the sims and think-pieces often
    didn't precisely cover the contingency in question. They could provide
    useful starting points, but often extensive improvisation *was* necessary.

    In particular, assorted work on "LM lifeboat" options for Apollo all
    assumed that the failure was in the CSM *propulsion* system -- nobody had
    ever simulated, studied, or even thought about getting home with the CSM
    *dead*, as Apollo 13 did. Which is why doing that was one frantic
    improvisation after another.
    --
    MOST launched 1015 EDT 30 June, separated 1046, | Henry Spencer
    first ground-station pass 1651, all nominal! | henry@spsystems.net

  4. #4
    G.Beat's Avatar
    G.Beat Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure

    "Terrell Miller" <millerto@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
    news:tfdib.5516$BI4.2902@bignews6.bellsouth.net...

    Gemini 7/6 challenges -

    Record turnaround time for a Titan II launch (that was never repeated by the
    USAF)
    ..... and Schirra winning the "steely eyes missile man "award on December 12
    (not aborting)
    How to handle 2 manned Gemini vehicles in orbit (not performed for another 4
    years with Apollo 9)

    http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/Hi...203/ch12-3.htm
    Chapter 12 - On the Shoulders of Titans
    In September 1964, Mueller had asked Schneider if he thought activating a
    second launch complex would help to shorten the time between launches.
    Schneider's first reaction was no. But, in February 1965, he had his office
    study the value of launching two Gemini spacecraft either simultaneously or
    in quick succession. Eldon W. Hall, Schneider's Systems Engineering
    Director, reported that having two crews in orbit at the same time and
    trading pilots in mid-space would have public appeal. Other advantages might
    be using an unmanned Gemini for a space rescue or completing a rendezvous
    mission if a spacecraft failed to launch. But none of these things was worth
    the cost of a second pad and spacecraft modifications. In summary, Hall
    said, "It might be nice, but there is no overwhelming necessity."17

    gb



  5. #5
    Pat Flannery's Avatar
    Pat Flannery Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure



    G.Beat wrote:

    I'm pretty sure that the Air Force could've gotten fifty or so Titan
    II's airborne inside of say, thirty minutes, if they had had the proper
    motivation....


    I'll agree with you fully on that one...that was the coolest operator
    (actually both of them were cool) that ever came down the pipe for that
    example of trusting one's instincts over SOP in that situation... I was
    watching that one of TV and I think I was more concerned about the
    situation than he was....although from the discussions of the
    effectiveness of those Gemini ejection seats in relation to an on-pad
    abort that we've had here, staying in the capsule until you are _sure_
    that the launch vehicle is falling apart might be the safest move.

    Pat


  6. #6
    Harald Kucharek's Avatar
    Harald Kucharek Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure

    GT-7/6 is still the only time, when more than one manned US-spacecraft was
    in orbit simultanously, not counting space stations. Isn't it?

  7. #7
    Greg D. Moore \(Strider\)'s Avatar
    Greg D. Moore \(Strider\) Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure


    "Harald Kucharek" <hk_valid_2003@gmx.net> wrote in message
    news:f30255a1.0310130134.53d43b12@posting.google.c om...

    No, Apollo 9 technically counts.




  8. #8
    Hallerb's Avatar
    Hallerb Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure

    >

    I guess you atre forgetting all the apollo lunar module flights?

  9. #9
    Sam Seiber's Avatar
    Sam Seiber Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure

    Greg D. Moore (Strider) wrote:

    How about Apollo 10-17. Technically (Actually) the moon orbits the
    earth, right?

    Sam "Word fight....." Seiber

  10. #10
    Harald Kucharek's Avatar
    Harald Kucharek Guest

    Default Dual Gemini launches considered before GTA-6 Agena failure

    hallerb@aol.com (Hallerb) wrote in message news:<20031013082217.13877.00000290@mb-m29.aol.com>...

    Duh, yep. :-(

    But I was more in the track "independendtly launched", but because I
    forgot the LM flights, my question was underspecified.
    That comes from too much work at the Apollo Lunar *Surface* Journal...

    Harald

 

 
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