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Thread: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

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    Default Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe



    The Iberian Peninsula—home of modern-day Spain and Portugal—has been a place where the cultures of Africa, Europe, and the Mediterranean have mingled. Beginning in the Bronze Age, the genetic makeup of the area changed dramatically. Starting in about 2,500 B.C., genes associated with people from the steppes near the Black and Caspian seas, in what is now Russia, can be detected in the Iberin gene pool. Though 60 percent of the region’s total DNA remained the same, the Y chromosomes of the inhabitants were almost entirely replaced by 2,000 B.C. That suggests a massive influx of men from the steppes, since Y chromosomes are carried only by men. You can read more about this interesting study here, at:
    https://www.nationalgeographic.com/s...ppe-men-spain/
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    Default Re: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

    Very intriguing news Makuser, thanks. It seems to even earlier than the Indo-Aryan migration into India.

    There is one remarkable surprise, though.
    The study did show that people in present-day Basque, who speak Western Europe’s only non-Indo-European language, carry genetic markers closely related to those of the steppe people. And unlike modern Spaniards, modern-day Basques don’t show the same amount of genetic mixing that happened on the peninsula over the centuries.
    So this would indicate that despite "male replacement" the females carried the Basque language on successfully.

    This Wikipedia article is going to need a redo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_migrations

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    Default Re: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

    Hello Marshall,

    this is quite an exciting discovery revealing the origins of the Bronze Age population in Spain, bookmarked.
    Thank you,

    JG
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    Default Re: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by not_Fritz_Argelander View Post
    There is one remarkable surprise, though.
    So this would indicate that despite "male replacement" the females carried the Basque language on successfully.
    Hi nFA. An superb observation from you here. And ironically, I just looked up the Basque region a couple of weeks ago. The Basque language is NOT a descendant of the Romance (derived from Latin) languages, and even with centuries of being instilled with Spanish and some French, it still stands as it's own language:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque...reater_region)
    Thanks for your excellent post nFA, and the kindest of regards.
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    Default Re: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

    Hello Marshall, hello not_Fritz,

    I used to go frequently to Spain on some projects, and especially to Basque and to Catalunya. These both countries are quite different from Spain, even if there are otherwise enough language and other differences within the rest of Spain.

    Basque reminds me of Switzerland, very clean, everything very well ordered, when you book a car at the airport,
    you will find it at the airport. Some people believe that their language is similar to some languages spoken in Caucasus, but there are dozens of languages spoken in Caucasus.
    As Basque is mainly mountains, the invadors have not eventually been so much interested.
    The "Rain in Spain" happens in Basque, but not elsewhere in Spain.

    Catalunya (around Barcelona) is a Romance speaking country, somehow more similar to the southern France,
    it is fantastic, beautiful, stylish, full of culture, worth of living there.

    How many times have I been to Spain, sixteen?, may be,

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    Default Re: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

    Makuser, JG.....

    Never been to Basque country or Catalunya, maybe someday.

    I am fascinated by language isolates and linguistic anomalies. So Basque, possibly Etruscan, Sumerian are of great interest. Also there are certain anomalies. Japanese has been variously classified (along with Korean) as Turko-Altaic, Austronesian and Zeus knows what else.
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    Default Re: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by j.gardavsky View Post
    Catalunya (around Barcelona) is a Romance speaking country, somehow more similar to the southern France, it is fantastic, beautiful, stylish, full of culture, worth of living there.
    JG
    Hi JG. Speaking of the south of France, the Provençal region is also curiously interesting.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proven%C3%A7al_dialect
    Thanks again nFA and JG, and the best of regards.
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    Default Re: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by Makuser View Post
    Hi JG. Speaking of the south of France, the Provençal region is also curiously interesting.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proven%C3%A7al_dialect
    Thanks again nFA and JG, and the best of regards.
    There is a lovely setting of folks songs from the region in the language by Cantaloube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQRuNNfgjOM

    I like the Anna Moffo recordings with Stokowski, though.

    Regrettably I was unable to accept an invitation to the observatory at Aix back when I was still active in astronomy as work. Would've been nice....
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    Default Re: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

    Well, hi again nFA. And I didn't have to look up Anna Moffo. We got to view her singing on a PBS TV broadcast special on WMFE many years ago. What a great vocal range she could establish. Thanks yet again nFA.
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    Default Re: Surprising DNA Found in Ancient People from Southern Europe

    Quote Originally Posted by not_Fritz_Argelander View Post
    ...

    Regrettably I was unable to accept an invitation to the observatory at Aix back when I was still active in astronomy as work. Would've been nice....
    Aix-en-Provence (Colonia Aquae Sextiae Salluviorum) is a terrific town when walking its platanus avenue,
    visiting Atelier de Cezanne, and more.
    Definitely a place must to go.

    Aix is an old word for water spring, coming possibly from Celtic "isca".

    The Romance counterpart is agara, aga, ava, widespread in the river names across the Alps through the middle Danube.
    The river names are excellent tracers for the spread of the languages from the late Bronze Age (Hallstadt)
    into the 5th century of the Roman Empire.
    Reading the river name, I know where I am, ha, ha.

    Best,

    JG
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