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Thread: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

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    Default Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters



    So, I picked up a 12 inch zhumell a couple days ago. Haven't got to use it because it didn't come with a base and I'm in the process of building one now. So obviously it was used. Guy used the scope itself and said it worked great but he picked it up at auction which is why I got it pretty reasonable. 350 bucks. However he used his own eyepeice. And now I know why. The small 9mm is complete junk, you can't even see through it. The 30mm wideview isn't bad but I can see a few pits in the lens.
    So, I need some advice lol. I'm new to this but I have been doing some reading, but the more I do the more I seem to get confused, or should I say have more questions.
    Right now I'd like to have three good eyepeices. Since I haven't looked through the 30mm yet to see if it's any good or not I could come back to it later. But definitely like to have a good medium and high power. That way I can get a good range and not be too deep in the game so to speak.
    That's when I started to get into f ratio and all that and some EP will work with longer f/r and some better with short.
    So the scope is 4.9 f/r. Someone suggested the Es 82° 18mm. Every where else i've read seems to say that's a good medium power that will work well in this?
    With that being the choice for that. Would a Barlow on that cover my higher power needs for now or would you suggest an actual eyepiece. If so do the ES line perform well in the 4.9 f/r scopes at the 10-14 mm range. Would the 14 be too close to the 18 to make a difference?
    I guess I'm getting way too much in the weeds on this. I'm set on the 18mm from ES. So forget all the other mess i've just said. Good high power and low power to go along with this for a 4.9 ratio. With or without Barlow combinations would be helpful. If I could keep it to just 3 for now with maybe the Barlow combination, that would probably set me up for quite a while. Thanks.

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    Default Re: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

    Refractors: Antares 105 f/15, Celestron 150 f/8, Stellarvue NHNG 80 f/6.9, TAL 100RS f/10, TS 102 f/11, UR 70 f/10, Vixen SD115s f/7.7
    Mounts: Celestron SLT w/ pier mod & EQ-3 tripod, Celestron hypertuned CG-5 w/ tracking motor & Argo Navis, Manfrotto 028B w/ Stellarvue M2C, Manfrotto 055PRO w/ 128RC, TAL-1 HD EQ, Vixen SXP w/ HAL-130 SXG & half pier
    Diagonals: 2" Astro-Physics MaxBright, 2" Zeiss/ Baader prism, 2" Baader Herschel Wedge (Photo Version), 2"
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    Amici prism, 2" Stellarvue Dielectric, 2" TeleVue Everbrite
    Eyepieces: A-Z

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    The weakest link in the optical chain is the large nut located directly behind the eyepiece/ camera. - Gabrielle
    Ya gotta keep this Apo/
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    Default Re: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

    I've used the ES 100 degree AFOV eyepieces on my Z12. I didn't keep them or the TV Naglers. My go to eyepieces are the TV Panoptics and Delos series when I want wide fields (70 degrees AFOV is wide enough for me) for DSOs. The TV series have better quality coatings I find. For planetary BCO and KK Orthoscopics beat out the wider AFOV designs on delicate planetary details.

    The ES 82s should work fine, I'm very sensitive to the pincushion distortions of 82 and 100 degree AFOV eyepieces.

    The Z12 is a great scope. I recently moved across country and the base and focuser need repair so I'm out of commission for a little while.

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    Default Re: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Gabby76 View Post
    Well then... wish I had found this a few days ago. Not too hot on this astronomy stuff yet, but I can do math lol. That made it super simple. Make a list, pick the best three I can for now. Fill in later as I go. Thank you so much for this. Now to order and hope they come in before I get base finished. Shame to have it sitting there with nothing to look through... oh and to make sure it's collimated. But that is a whole other bag of worms haha. Think i've got that one figured out though.
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    Default Re: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

    Thanks for the input. They don't strictly have to be the 82s. Just trying to get an idea what works and what doesn't. Like, just reading earlier, some brands are great at a certain range then are not in others in different f/R. But I'll read and read till I get a good idea. It's just useful to at least to have a place to start and not be in the dark so to speak.

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    Default Re: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayj12 View Post
    Thanks for the input. They don't strictly have to be the 82s. Just trying to get an idea what works and what doesn't. Like, just reading earlier, some brands are great at a certain range then are not in others in different f/R. But I'll read and read till I get a good idea. It's just useful to at least to have a place to start and not be in the dark so to speak.
    Many EPs will work well in the scope, but there are a few designs that you should stay away from, most notably Erfle designs including "Q" series and most 70 degree designed EPs along with the Baader Hyperions and it's clones.
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    Default Re: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozman13 View Post
    Many EPs will work well in the scope, but there are a few designs that you should stay away from, most notably Erfle designs including "Q" series and most 70 degree designed EPs along with the Baader Hyperions and it's clones.
    Most 70 degree eyepieces? Isn't that a rash over generalization? Among the 70s that won't do are the Qs and Hyperions as you point out. Others like TV Panoptic, Delos, Delite work extremely well in fast scopes. Then there are the Pentax XWs, the Vixen LVWs, etc. You get a nice wide afov with no need for a coma corrector at f5. Stars sharp to the edge and relative freedom from the pincushion distortion that folks ignore (or are oblivious to) in wider designs.

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    Default Re: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

    Quote Originally Posted by not_Fritz_Argelander View Post
    Most 70 degree eyepieces? Isn't that a rash over generalization? Among the 70s that won't do are the Qs and Hyperions as you point out. Others like TV Panoptic, Delos, Delite work extremely well in fast scopes. Then there are the Pentax XWs, the Vixen LVWs, etc. You get a nice wide afov with no need for a coma corrector at f5. Stars sharp to the edge and relative freedom from the pincushion distortion that folks ignore (or are oblivious to) in wider designs.
    Well that may be a rash over generalization, but none of the EPs you mention are 70 degree EPs except the Pentax which I would not categorize among the "most" as they are very nice and expensive well corrected EPs. The TV EPs you mention also fall into the very nice expensive well corrected category and none of them 70 degree EPs nor the Vixen.

    Can you recommend another 70 degree EP that will work well in the scope at a more affordable price than the $300 Pentax?
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    Default Re: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozman13 View Post
    Well that may be a rash over generalization, but none of the EPs you mention are 70 degree EPs except the Pentax which I would not categorize among the "most" as they are very nice and expensive well corrected EPs. The TV EPs you mention also fall into the very nice expensive well corrected category and none of them 70 degree EPs nor the Vixen.
    You're quibbling.

    The TV Panoptics, TV Delos, and Vixen LVW are customarily and routinely discussed and compared as all of the 70 degree afov class. This is natural and reasonable since they will have less pincushion distortion than eyepieces of the 80 degree afov class like the ES82s and the TV Naglers. If one wants to quibble then the Panoptics are 68, the Delos are 72 and the Pentax are 70. But to quibble would perhaps be idiosyncratic since these are often compared among each other as a class. Let's not be churlish?

    Can you recommend another 70 degree EP that will work well in the scope at a more affordable price than the $300 Pentax?
    No. I can't recommend the less expensive eyepieces. I think it better to get fewer of higher quality so that observing skills can grow.

    I've tried ES100s, TV Naglers, Panoptics, Delos, Plossls, Luminos, Meade HD60, Baader Hyperions, Baader Aspherics, Vixen LVW and Plossls, BCOs, and KK Fujiyama Orthos in my Z12.

    Best wider ~70 degree field performance was as I said (leaving quibbles of 2 degrees in afov aside!) Panoptics and Delos. I sold off the rest. Standard field planetary performance was best with the Orthos. Best detection of the faintest fuzzies the TV Plossls but the BCOs give better internal detail.
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    Default Re: Z12 eyepeice, 2 or 3 good starters

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozman13 View Post
    Well that may be a rash over generalization, but none of the EPs you mention are 70 degree EPs except the Pentax which I would not categorize among the "most" as they are very nice and expensive well corrected EPs. The TV EPs you mention also fall into the very nice expensive well corrected category and none of them 70 degree EPs nor the Vixen.

    Can you recommend another 70 degree EP that will work well in the scope at a more affordable price than the $300 Pentax?
    Hello Oz,

    the most affordable 70plus degrees f=15mm EP is at the moment the ex-military Hensoldt for 30 bucks,
    https://www.ebay.de/itm/1-Stuck-f15-...sAAOSw4gpbxGy9
    The eye relief is just a few mm, but thanks to the special glass materials, the light and contrast beats the 15mm Plössls, and the 100USD Abbe Orthos, and otherwise in short, it is heads on regarding the contrast and light with the professional grade
    Leica HC Plan, HC PlanS, and L series.

    The Pentax SMC XW are close to 70 deg, some of them have been reported as 68 deg, who cares?

    If you want to beat the 70 deg top astro eyepieces, you must take the intrafocal Leicas and Zeiss (AFOV 65 deg up to 73 deg),
    and toss more $$$. Even on the 2nd hand markets, they are still more expensive than the new Delos, Pentax, ...

    Otherwise, the difference between the generic and the premium eyepieces is comparable to the difference between the generic and the original medical pills.
    It is like with the eyes. You have a choice to buy the contact lenses manufactured in Mexico, or you will spend more for the lenses from Zeiss.
    The Rodenstock glasses for my wife have been more expensive than any eyepiece in my astro case. So I don't have a problem.


    Best,

    JG
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