About Imaging Source cameras...

[Leo]

can these cameras be used as autoguiders?
[Registered users can see links. ]

Also, between resolution and FPS, which is more important for planetary imaging? (and for autoguiding if these cameras do that too)
for example, would you pick a camera of 1280x960 and 15FPS or 1024x768 and 30FPS for the same price?

I was just researching a camera for when I start astrophotograpy (I'll start with planets because I'll buy a 5D for deepsky next year probably, so I don't want to buy a cheaper camera for starting out, it will just be more money if I buy one first then the other. I like to buy the best stuff right away. By buying an Imaging source Camera (which from what I see on the net are the mid-range cameras for planetary imaging, being better than cheaper webcams but loses to the more expensive ones) so I'll use it as a planetary imager and later on as an autoguider as well. 2 for 1.

So does it do autoguiding as well?

[Leo]

Oh and, if anybody has other recomendation on other brands that I might not know about that sells cameras like these or better for under 1000$ (preferably under 700$) please post!

[Canon Pete]

I use the QHY5v camera , does Lunar ( and Planetry to a degree as well ) and can be used for guiding. Retails here at about £165 GBP.

Clear Skies

Pete

[admin]

Hi Enrico ,
The DMK are even better than the commonly used SSAG or QHY5/5v cameras but they are a bit more expensive - otherwise I would have bought one here in OZ they sell them as well locally (but they were $400 more expensive than my QHy5 so I went with the QHy5). That said they use CCD, instead of CMOS (SSAG/QHy5) so they are more sensitive, and can find uses in autoguiding and imaging. They also have good support in PHD, and MaximDL - ie software/drivers are better than QHy5.

Maybe compare prices to the SSPI/AG and the DMK camera you are interested in. Also FPS is very important in planetary imaging, but guiding not much.

[Leo]

Thanks alot Gus, so you would go for FPS over resolution in any camera that has everything else equal, including price?
I'll take a look at those cameras you said right now.

[Leo]

Gus,

I searched on google the SSPI/AG but didn't find it, and as I don't know what I'm searching for I don't know what else to type. Can any body provide me a link please?

Also, you mentioned the DMK, which is monochrome, would you suggest it instead of the color one? I do need LRBG filters for color images with a monochrome though right?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

[Leo]

WHAT!? this thing can do some long exposure deep sky shots too!?
[Registered users can see links. ]

[admin]

Hi Enrico,
the SSAG is the Orion Starshoot Autoguider. The SSPI is the Orion Starshoot Planetary Imager. They would be able to ship to you for a very cheap price from the US, from telescope.com

The issue now is, do you want an autoguider only (Orion SSAG vs QHY5 vs), a planetary imager and an autoguider (SSPI vs QHY5V vs ), or an purpose imager?

There are some cheap deals to find for DSI and DSI II Pros but they would require extra cables to be used for autoguiders. I would try to find a used DMK camera, or if you can afford it find a decent mono imager (CCD) either used or new to use as a general purpose camera.

Another alternative, is to spend most of your money on a decent CCD, and get a cheaper webcam or find one that is pre-modded/used like an old Toucam or Philips. This way you could get the best of both worlds for a fraction more. Also, you could always use the webcam for autoguiding, and planetary imaging like I did here with a $40 camera:



and use your future DSLR (this is an option for mainly deep sky), or your main ccd camera for imaging like a DMK, or used DSI Pro II or similar to do deep sky imaging.

However my shots with the $40 webcam do not approach the shots seen here:
http://www.astronomycameras.com/en/p...r/dfk21au04as/

However these may be under the best conditions possible, with a lot of patience (many nights and keeping/showing the best shots), and skill as well.

It really depends on what you want to image (planets, the sky, deep sky - galaxies etc. everything?), how much you want to spend, and what equipment you want to use (ie cost)?

I am still very happy with my DSLR , it is unmodified and you could also score a webcam used modded for autoguiding, and a used 350D Canon modded probably for less than $400-500 if you are patient (and quick).

[Leo]

Gus, that is a lot of info, thank you!

Ok, so let me explain why I'm asking about cameras now that I don't even have a scope yet!
I read The Backyard Astronomer's Guide, and I think it changed my opinion about dobsonians, even though he recommends an 8" as a first scope. Also, from the simple crappy shots I'm getting with binoculars and handheld camera, I think I'm liking the imaging part better than observing, so I'm thinking that with some proper imaging equipment I might not even use my dob for observing anymore, thus I'm afraid I might be wasting money. So getting an imaging telescope (on a GEM GoTo) might be a better choice, because if I want just put an eyepiece on the focuser and observe, I can do it, and If I want to image, I just stick a camera in it and start imaging planets and maybe some 30sec or so exposures of deep sky. Then if I want more deep sky, all I have to do is buy an autoguider and guidescope, etc...With a dob on the other hand, I' stuck with observing, and planetary shots. I definitely don't want to regret my choice, so I'm starting to think a dob isn't for me, a SCT might be it. I also reconsidered the amount I'm whiling to spend, which is way more than my initial $600, let's say I'm willing to go up to about $4000 for telescope, mount, and some accessories.

From the info you gave me so far, (I want to image everything, but not from the start, so I'll start with planets then go for deepsky later on), I think I'll start with my camera which shoots at 30FPS at 640x480, which I think is like cheap webcams, and I already bought an adapter for it.

So first of all, This is my list of stuff I'm looking to getting my hands on this year.

Step 1: The scope with maybe 2-3 eyepieces and a barlow. I as thinking a Celestron SCT on a GEM.

Step 2: Then a good thing I think is for me to get a DMK mono, which would allow me to get great planetary shots with experience, and possibly even some 30-60 second exposure shots for deep sky with no more than the scope and the camera (and my laptop) from what I know (please correct me if I'm wrong). The LRBG filters and wheel will also be on my shopping list. Then, If I get a canon (step 3), I might use it as my autoguider, because even if I had another autoguider to use the DMK for deep sky, the theoretical limit is 60mins exposure, but not having any cooling (Canada has natural cooling , but I won't use it as an excuse), this camera would be limited to 1minute exposures at max from what I've read about it. This is why I think a DMK is good for me, it's like a high quality planetary imager that will satisfy me for a very long time, and also a multipurpose camera.

Step 3: forget the 5D, as you said, a 1000D, or a 350D for not much more, would be a great! And if the steps above are completed, now I can do some deep sky long exposure photography providing I get a guide scope, which will also serve as a grab and go scope with my PHD paragon plus tripod. SO step 3 would be a Canon DSLR and an 80mm refractor. The refractor will also be used for wide-field astrophotography.

With this, I finish my list for the whole year.






To sum up:

Step 1: Scope, 2-3 eyepieces and a barlow.
Step 2: DMK Mono, LRBG filters and wheel.
Step 3: Canon DSLR and 80mm refractor.

With step 1 I can do observing whenever I want, and can start off planetary imaging with my digital camera, which will act as the start-off webcam, with the difference of being through the eyepiece shots.

By step 2 I can do some great planetary imaging with experience, possibly some short-exposure deep sky, along with observing.

By step 3, I can do long exposure with the DSLR being my deep-sky camera and the DMK as both a planetary imager and an autoguider. The 80mm refractor will be used for both deep-sky wide field astrophotoraphy and a grab and go scope wit my tripod, along with it's primary purpose as an guide scope.

So many things I can do with all that.

With a Dob, I'd be just getting something that is not what I want, and would be an extra $1000 to all this.

I'm so glad I spend this much time so far without buying a scope, and will for the next few months, because I might have done something I'd be regretting.

Here's two question though:

1. If you were to choose between any DMK mono camera, nevermind the price, pretend you could pick anyone for free, which would you pick? resolution and format VS FPS.
[Registered users can see links. ] (first three)

2. What do you think? am I jumping too far ahead of myself?

Thank you for all your help.

EDIT:
The $4000 budget is for the scope and EPs and barlow alone. Step 1 I was considering the Celestron EdgeHD 925 or 1100 CGEM SCT, which already comes with a good 23mm Axiom for $3,000-$3,500, the rest might be used for another one or two eyepieces and a barlow.

For Step 2 I'm considering even the most expensive $700 DMK.

And for step 3, I don't know, maybe the new Orion triplet and the Canon XTi 350D, used or new, may be modified. I'll have until Christmas to say the least to think about step 3.

I'm planning on completing at least Steps 1 and 2 this year. A setup like this would last many, many years for sure, until I decide to upgrade in 2030!

[admin]

Hi Enrico,

for your two main questions:


1. I will try to balance your spending and throw out some more ideas. So basically you could even go to $700 for a DMK but that is about 20%, or 1/5 of your total spending of $4000 which is a lot of money (at least for me right now!).

What I will suggest is the following as you could get a lot of scope, mount and camera for $4000 and even less.

A) Pick a decent scope OTA - the larger the size, the more expensive mount you will need

B) Pick a good mount - Orion EQ-G Atlas, EQ, Sky Watcher EQ5 Pro/EQ6 PRO, etc.

C) Determine if you want to go DSLR or CCD camera (you will only be able to use the CCD for astronomy, a DSLR can be used to take nice photos too during the daytime!)

D) Must get a few decent eyepieces, and a barlow or two (for imaging planets, and general viewing)

E) Spend remaining money on a planetary imager and autoguider

In that order or switch A and B - either way you need to come to E in that method or similar. Money wise I would rate spending from B>A>C>D>E so maybe I should have put B first.

2. I think you have done your research, and since you are like me in a white zone you will definitely benefit with some sort of mount to help you find objects. Most people have no trouble finding planets in the city, but a faint nebula or galaxy is often impossible so whatever help you can get if you like these objects so be it. A good mount is important, so I would spend a lot of time thinking about that as well. Maybe open a thread in the mount forum to discuss options?