Thinking about a CCD

[lilmsmaggie]

My suggestion and its just that is this: Take your time. Don't rush to buy."

Use this time to research. I'm essentially in the same boat. I want to buy a CCD.

I recommend getting a copy of Ron Wodaski's book:

The New CCD Astronomy. He also has a second book that applies the Zone system developed by Ansel Adams, and applies it to astrophotography.

Ron also has a yahoo users group that discusses - yep, you guessed it CCD imaging.

What I've gleaned from the book is that you need to match the CCD to the f-ratio and optics of your scope and decide on what area/ares interests you the most: DSO's, wide-field, planetary, ...

Good luck and enjoy the journey!

[Dragon206]

I don't think I'm rushing to buy the CCD, but I'm trying to spend enough time to make all the considerations required to orient the decision. I understand this is an important decision, not last for the amount of money.
I like this hobby (my bank account a little less ) also because when you don't have the chance to observe/image you can think about upgrading the equipment or planning what to do next.

Thank you for suggesting that book.

At the moment I think that the camera that would give me the most bang for the bucks is the Atik 383L+ package. I'm planning to buy the camera in April, so I have a couple of months to make the final decision and think about other aspects, like the filters to get (I'm considering the Baader set with LRGB and Ha, OIII, SII).

[jsigone]

April will be a the opening to prime time season. Will give about 1 month to get used to the new gear before all the nebulas and dusty DSO come back. Personally I don't think you can go wrong with the mono 383 package, but I'm liking the smaller sony chip too. Two different range of scopes/lens can be used for either setup.

[lilmsmaggie]

In a previous post, you mentioned that you were leaning towards the SBIG STF-8300. SBIG offers several packages with that camera some of them include an OAG, internal FW with filters, self-guiding etc., planetary camera. Just thought I'd mention since you're still considering your choices.

ATIK has a package that includes the 383L+ 7-position EFW and case for around $2500. I've been exchanging email with a young lady that has the ATIK 314L - she loves it. She's thinking of getting the ATIK 4000. Her name is Anna Morris. You might want to check out her web site or drop her an email about the ATIK's:

Enterprise Astrophotography: Shooting the stars


I think you or someone else mentioned the QSI 583wsg.

I'm close to purchasing a CCD as well. Probably in April like yourself. A professional astro-imager in my area that has actually tested/used my scope for imaging suggested that I get the QSI 683wsg-C-8.

I just ordered a field-flattner and the Starlight Xpress Lodestar, so I'm getting a bit closer to completing the imaging package. QSI cameras come with drivers for MaxIm DL and CCDSoft.

Oh, and I'll need a laptop ...

I don't think I'm rushing to buy the CCD, but I'm trying to spend enough time to make all the considerations required to orient the decision. I understand this is an important decision, not last for the amount of money.
I like this hobby (my bank account a little less ) also because when you don't have the chance to observe/image you can think about upgrading the equipment or planning what to do next.

Thank you for suggesting that book.

At the moment I think that the camera that would give me the most bang for the bucks is the Atik 383L+ package. I'm planning to buy the camera in April, so I have a couple of months to make the final decision and think about other aspects, like the filters to get (I'm considering the Baader set with LRGB and Ha, OIII, SII).

[Dragon206]

Hi!
The sensor of the Atik 4000 is pretty good, with a pretty high QE. The 314L+ has a small sensor, that's one of the reasons why I'm considering a camera based on the KAF8300 sensor.

Yeah I noticed that SBIG has that package. Initially I could find only the package with FW+OAG+guide camera, as I think the same package without guide camera was not there. Now that I found the package with STF-8300+FW+OAG on the website, SBIG is back into my thoughts (or are they dreams? ).

I had a chance to discuss with a user on an Italian forum about the Atik 383L+ vs QSI683. He had the Atik and decided to upgrade to a QSI for several reasons (the dissicant lasted for too short, images were pretty noisy, cooler wasn't that effective, picture download time was pretty long - he also wanted an embedded OAG so he bought the wsg model). He said that the Atik does its job, but (as usual) you have what you pay for: the difference in price is noticeable, but the QSI has an overall much better performance.
I read online that Kodak sensors are usually more noisy than sensors made by Sony (maybe that's why the 314L+ works so well) and electronics surrounding are what make the difference. That's why QHY or Atik cameras are cheaper than QSIs and SBIGs.

As I initially said, my budget could cover the cost of the QSI or the SBIG cameras, so I'm actually changing my mind a bit and consider these 2 models more.
I also started considering the OAG. I currently shoot with a guidescope and I find it a perfect match for my 80APO refractor. With the 925HD OTA instead the weight of the system is pretty high. It works, but I have the feeling that in that case the OAG could do slightly better.

Advantages of the QSI683 over the SBIG are:
- much better form factor;
- less weigth;
- uses unmounted 31mm filters without vignetting down to f/2.8, because they are very close to the sensor - this means saving a lot of money for the filters.
Prices:
- 683ws: 3900$CAD + taxes
- 683wsg: 4300$CAD + taxes

On the other side:
- SBIG is SBIG
- CCDSoft is included in the package;
- it is "modular": if I want to use the OAG I can install it (OAG of the QSI wsg model is embedded so always there, this also means that the camera cannot be used with any normal camera lenses).
Prices:
- STF-8300M+FW5: 3700$CAD + taxes
- STF-8300M+FW8: 4000$CAD + taxes
- STF-8300M OAG FW5: 4320$CAD + taxes

It seems hard to take a decision when so much money is involved...

Another aspect I have to consider is about the filters. With a 5 slots FW I can install LRGB and Ha filters. I hope one day to get into narrowband imaging, so an 8 slots FW could be a better alternative, so that all LRGB Ha OIII SII and an empty slot for focusing could be installed without the need to open and close the camera every time. On the other side a FW-8 weights more, costs more (a new filter wheel is cheaper than the difference in prices between the FW-5 and the FW-8) and is bigger, so as for now I consider mainly FW with 5 slots.
Baader has a filter set that includes everything (CLRGBHaOIIISII) for a reasonable price, while Astrodon's E set (Astrodon seems to be the best brand out there for CCD filters) only includes LRGB, as the narrowband filters are really expensive.

[Farooq]

I have just ordered an SBIG ST8300M with FW5 and Baader LRGB and Ha filters, along with a FF and 17mm extension tube. STF was out of my budget. Really looking forward to receiving it by the end of the week hopefully.

My wife made the decision for me (between Atik 383L and SBIG ST8300), I was dithering between the two and couldn't decide which one. In the end less wires, SW package, ability to run on MAC, and the SBIG name tipped it towards the ST8300. Not to say ATIK is not good, but that's the way the cookie crumbled.

I did not consider the OIII and SII filters because I think i'll need a good year or so before I am at that stage when I can progress to full NB imaging. Hence I just stuck with the FW5 and Ha NB filter only.

[Dragon206]

I think you are right about NB, I may just be planning too far away in the future. The reason why I said that is based on the fact that if I get a full set now, I can save money and just leave the filters there until I think I'm ready to do the first attempts at NB imaging.

I tried to find comparisons of the QSI vs STF online, but I couldn't find much... I understand they are both great cameras but I wanted to know more. Unfortunately those cameras are usually not available in shops (I guess because of the price?) and so I cannot check them out directly.

[Dragon206]

Here I am again with questions as I haven't bought the CCD yet.

SBIG just announced the new STT-8300M. That's an amazing piece of equipment, but unfortunately that's too expensive for me at 5300$ for the camera plus self guiding filter wheel (oh man, isn't that cool? ).

STF-8300M is currently discounted to an acceptable price - like 1000$ less than the STT. The pro plus package is roughly 300$ more than the QSI683wsg-8, but it includes the complete LRGB + NB filter set and software.
Does anybody know how this camera is (electronics, mechanical part, "bulkiness", weight with cfw8)?

[Skyhawk727]

Dragon206

I think the FWC doubles at 2X2 binning. I have the ST8300M and use it in a reasonably light polluted area.

Have not had sensitivity problems so far even with my 7nm Ha filter. At 2X2 I can frame just about everything with a 30 second exposure. Including M101 and the Veil nebula

Lots of guys are way better then me and produce beautiful work with the ST8300. I've posted some of my images in my album... you might want to look (I'm improving).

At the moment I'm using the ST8300 with my Meade LX200 10" @f10. I bin down to 2X2 and get about .91 arcsec/pixel.

I also use it with an AstroTech 65mm APO and that's a beautiful combination.

CCD Ops and CCD Soft come with the camera and both are pretty good, so you won't need any new software for a while.

Dave

[Dragon206]

Dragon206

I think the FWC doubles at 2X2 binning. I have the ST8300M and use it in a reasonably light polluted area.

Have not had sensitivity problems so far even with my 7nm Ha filter. At 2X2 I can frame just about everything with a 30 second exposure. Including M101 and the Veil nebula

Lots of guys are way better then me and produce beautiful work with the ST8300. I've posted some of my images in my album... you might want to look (I'm improving).

At the moment I'm using the ST8300 with my Meade LX200 10" @f10. I bin down to 2X2 and get about .91 arcsec/pixel.

I also use it with an AstroTech 65mm APO and that's a beautiful combination.

CCD Ops and CCD Soft come with the camera and both are pretty good, so you won't need any new software for a while.

Dave

Awesome!
The CCD is going to be used with similar equipment. I have a 9.25" EdgeHD SCT @ f/10 (until the FR will be available) and I calculated the same sampling more or less. I like the kaf8300 because if you bin 2x2 you still get a pretty big image.
The other scope is an 80mm APO refractor (384mm FL).
My only concern is about the weight of the camera+fw+oag+guide camera combination.
How much does your set weight?

The STT8300 would be just perfect at 1.2kg for everything. Unfortunately I cannot find information about the weight of the FW8 and OAG.

Have you tried MaximDL also? If so, how does it compare to the 2 pieces of software provided by SBIG?