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Thread: CCD Resolution of Astrophotography One Shot Cameras (OSC) vs Monochromatic Cameras?

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    I think the above by Jim and Jim are great

    I will only add that OSC cameras have a place in imaging, although they may not be used by all the pros, and one of the techniques that can overcome their limitations (at least their sensor size for those with large sensors) is Drizzle.

    edit: I also think they are a great stepping stone for those interested in imaging but have a limited budget and limited time

    I have used Drizzle before (mainly with my large DSLR Canon sensor) and it does increase the finer detail on your final image - even greater than your initial RAW images - Hubble also uses this technique. However obviously there are limits - complete with advantages and disadvantage in the PDF below. This will not make your camera/gear into Hubble!

    More on Drizzle here:
    http://www.stark-labs.com/craig/arti...rizzle_API.pdf

    It helps image details in your image by making a final image similar to one if you had made it with a smaller chip size if indeed your images are undersampled.

    more here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drizzle..._processing%29
    Name: Gus OTAs: ED 100 PRO refractor, Orion ST80 (not the CF), 8" Dob stuck in Canada Mounts:HEQ5PRO Synscan mount, Manfrotto Tripod CAMS: Guidecam Philips SPC900 webcams (4), Canon unmodded-450D DSLR

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  2. #22
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    My understanding (could be wrong as well) is that drizzling means using either intentional or unintentional movement of the scope so that the light from objects fall in a slightly different place on the imaging sensor. It can be even a fraction of a pixel away. Using algorithms the stacking software will pinpoint the center of the star and can figure any shift and use that shift to increase resolution and image size when stacking. That's my understanding, anyway.
    Mounts: CGX, CGEM
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    Gus, you beat me to it! Posted right before me. Thanks for the info! Checking it out now. And thank you to everyone else who has posted. You have all been very helpful. I apologize for the disconnect in my terminology. I'm a photographer and have been using the vocabulary from that field.
    Mounts: CGX, CGEM
    Telescopes: Orion 102mm f/7 ED Apo w/ MoonLite focuser and autofocuser, WO Star71 71mm f/4.9 Apo w/ MoonLite autofocuser
    Cameras: Orion Parsec 8300M, SBIG STF-8300M, Canon 6D, StarShoot autoguider
    Filters: Baader LRGB, Ha, OIII, SII, UHC-S
    Software: Photoshop CS5, MaxIm DL, Registar, DSS

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    NP here is an old post that I posted:

    Astrophotography Image Processing - Drizzle

    Drizzle simply is an algorithm for making use of the very small motion between frames to allow for recovering resolution lost due to undersampling.

    This discussion is getting complicated but undersampling and drizzle are part of a key to the future of imaging (there are some that are using it now to their advantage) but we should all learn about it if we are interested in improving. As applied to planetary imaging:

    http://www.astrosurf.com/cidadao/super.htm

    more on drizzle here:

    http://astrosurf.com/buil/us/spe9/lrgb22.htm

    Possible Gains:

    1. Resolution gain can be up to 2.
    2. Combination of sequence images produce high resolution without sacrificing the final signal to noise ratio.
    Name: Gus OTAs: ED 100 PRO refractor, Orion ST80 (not the CF), 8" Dob stuck in Canada Mounts:HEQ5PRO Synscan mount, Manfrotto Tripod CAMS: Guidecam Philips SPC900 webcams (4), Canon unmodded-450D DSLR

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    I think this is a great resource here:

    Astrophotography by Rob kantelberg

    When we use a CCD camera where the pixels are too big compared to the above is called undersampling, and at its worst it can lead to square, blocky stars, or even stars that are missing completely. Minor undersampling is not too bad, though and many great astrophotos have been taken with undersampled star images. (Seeing smears the stars around, making small pixels much less necessary).
    Where sampling is the actual number of pixels used to resolve detail.
    Name: Gus OTAs: ED 100 PRO refractor, Orion ST80 (not the CF), 8" Dob stuck in Canada Mounts:HEQ5PRO Synscan mount, Manfrotto Tripod CAMS: Guidecam Philips SPC900 webcams (4), Canon unmodded-450D DSLR

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    Well I think I have decided on the Orion StarShoot monochromatic camera III. Sad that the image size will be so small but I guess I can make mosaics to increase it, I have been wanting to do that anyway.
    Mounts: CGX, CGEM
    Telescopes: Orion 102mm f/7 ED Apo w/ MoonLite focuser and autofocuser, WO Star71 71mm f/4.9 Apo w/ MoonLite autofocuser
    Cameras: Orion Parsec 8300M, SBIG STF-8300M, Canon 6D, StarShoot autoguider
    Filters: Baader LRGB, Ha, OIII, SII, UHC-S
    Software: Photoshop CS5, MaxIm DL, Registar, DSS

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    It is good you decided! let us know when you get it
    Name: Gus OTAs: ED 100 PRO refractor, Orion ST80 (not the CF), 8" Dob stuck in Canada Mounts:HEQ5PRO Synscan mount, Manfrotto Tripod CAMS: Guidecam Philips SPC900 webcams (4), Canon unmodded-450D DSLR

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    Hi Guys,

    Interesting thread, I went through the same arguments when deciding whether to go MONO or COLOUR. In the end after reading some articles I decided for my site and conditions, colour was the way to go and I bought the SBIG ST-8300C.

    Here is an interesting article by quite a well known astro photographer regarding the issue of colour vs mono.

    http://www.stargazer-observatory.com/mono_vs_osc.html

    Regards,
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    Thanks I read that one, its a good link to include.

    I also think it depends on the same factors at the end including budget.

    I am happy with my OSC but I really have to use a few mono ccds and OSCs to finally make any final judgements
    Name: Gus OTAs: ED 100 PRO refractor, Orion ST80 (not the CF), 8" Dob stuck in Canada Mounts:HEQ5PRO Synscan mount, Manfrotto Tripod CAMS: Guidecam Philips SPC900 webcams (4), Canon unmodded-450D DSLR

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    If all goes well, and don't anticipate it will, I am imaging NGC7000 tonite - my first outing with the camera AND the ED80T-CF ! AND MaximDL!

    yes, a lot going on and didn't get to start gathering data until almost 2am.

    I've shot this before in OSC with the SSPv2 through at least 2 scopes - the 160 and 80...

    Maxim DL is a trip! It's been so long since I bought it and was 'jus goofin' while cloudy that I had to noodle around a lot to even figure out how to start exposing !

    So far I've got 3 exposures, 1 each in Ha, OIII, and SII - and there appears to be a lot of data in each - I am going short exposures -only 15 minutes...

    Conditions lousy - halo around Luna

    Something not mentioned yet is - 'Dithering', and though I could script it in I'm not, I may when I go longer into the 20 minute and beyond but the mount 'appears' to be keeping very tight stars at 15 minutes. Here is a link to dithering - I guess you could call it a hybrid process involving both mount control/tracking during acquisition and then post processing (a sort of controlled chaos - but still mount needs to track very well) As Maxim DL can also controll the guiding I think it's just a matter of selecting the check box and choosing parameters in the exposure scripting.

    It's fascinating to me to be directly comparing on this target (after Luna passes out of the direct way I'm going to do same for M8, M16...) after the many months of waiting. The Ha data seems fantastic and borderline on overexposing the brighter areas at 15 minutes. Notably missing is Light Pollution and gradient! !! and that in so-so conditions with a full moon! WooHoo! I can see already though an immense difference in SNR though and am very excited to post process after I get some appropriate Darks and of course the much needed Flats - the AT field flattener is doing what looks like a fantastic job.

    I'd also like to add there is a lot about using a sensor with ABG (Anti-Blooming Gate) technology which I don't think my SSPv2 had? That and Bayer matrix I am curious bout the cutoff and etc there...

    Am extremely impressed with Maxim DL - wish I had bought it long ago - that's hindsight fer ya. Though everything is there in CCDOps/CCDSoft and the other software shipped with the SBIG unit, Maxim DL appears pretty seamless and sort of 'fire and forget' , and I've only scratched the surface.

    Another thought - I think going NB, and by that, I mean the ability to expose Ha/OIII/SII on some targets and get every pixel will be a huge benefit on emission and possibly reflection nebula, and to a lesser extent going L/R/G/B on others like galaxies - planetary nebula I'm even more uncertain.


    Sorry for the long post. I've been going out and checking all is well inbetween thoughts. I don't think I'll have enough data from the 10 or so exposures I'll have done tonite to make an image but I'll try. Certainly if I'd been using the SSPv2 I'd have something very useable with 3.5 hours exposure time!. We'll see - as I said, my first impression of only the Ha data has me a bit floored and very excited.

    IMO the idea of resolution has many components, and where I think going monochrome will far excel is in the narrowband isolation using band filters where there are different bands to exploit.

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