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    ToneyTime's Avatar
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    Question Newbie Idea: Gravity, Dark Matter and a Nuclear Cat



    Ok, I by no means have any special knowledge in Physics or any such, just an interest so if my question makes no sense, I apologize now.

    I've been thinking about the subject of dark matter and how it is found in mass roughly where normal matter is found and only effects with gravity (If thats way off, sorry). Now, also considering a chance for multiple dimensions separated on the event of atomic chances, what if in a sort of 4th axis, these dimesions are layered on top of one another and dark matter is only normal matter from layered dimensions near our own, with gravitons or other particles passing through, effecting our own world?

    That would make sense as to why we can't see it, why its clustered near normal matter and why it makes up such a large portion of our known universe, with multiple layers of replicated but slightly different universes pulling at each other through the fabric.

    So.. any thoughts? Inaccuracies? I would like to sharpen my idea so any comments or corrections are welcome, just take it easy on me

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    star drop's Avatar
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    Hi ToneyTime,

    Welcome to Astronomy Forum.
    Dark matter may be a property of the fabric of space itself. All the theories that I have seen always postulate that space is uniform. Why can't space be clumpy like everything else?

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    Relic2279's Avatar
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    Default

    Howdy, first time posting.

    Funny you brought up dark matter as just an hour ago, I read an interesting tidbit on wikipedia which sparked me to post this.

    There are actually some alternative hypothesis/theories to dark matter. It's called Modified Newtonian Dynamics, more specifically, the recent Tensor-vector-scalar gravity relativistic theory.

    It might explain the anomaly occurring with the pioneer probes, and the reason galaxies don't fly apart without the use of dark matter.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Newtonian_dynamics#Tensor-vector-scalar_gravity

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    star drop's Avatar
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    Hi Relic2279,

    Welcome to Astronomy Forum.
    I have hypothesized that dark matter might be a lumpiness to space/time. Is Modified_Newtonian_dynamics#Tensor-vector-scalar_gravity something similar?

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    digirak's Avatar
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    Er would someone bother to reply to the first post?

    I dont think dark matter is clustered around normal matter its just a clumpy arrangement where matter is clumped together, quite the way sugar gets clumped in a cup of tea!

    Am i right on this?

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    Chambered's Avatar
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    I think what ToneyTime is talking about is a parallel universe idea. His suggestion of "multiple dimensions separated on the event of atomic chances" brings to mind a scenario where a universe exists for each possible timeline. The problem with the idea of the matter from these parallel dimensions interacting is, there could be an infinite number of alternate universes, which means an infinite amount of interacting 'dark matter.'
    I suppose there could be a limiter like 'universes that are so many times removed will not interact' or something, but that just doesn't seem to be a strong case.

    And digirak, I think you are correct. Saying 'dark matter clusters around normal matter' isn't really correct. Dark matter is matter, theoretically, and it clusters together because it is the tendency of matter to be attracted to other matter (gravitationally).

    To be honest, I'd rather see dark matter to be found to be an error in the current understanding of gravity. I don't like the idea of an invisible dark matter (or energy) that seemed to be invented to account for odd observations. On the other hand, its such a widely accepted theory in the scientific community that you almost hope it's correct so that all the time that has been spent investigating it is not wasted.

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    Chambered's Avatar
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    ToneyTime, here is where I disagree with your post:
    What you seem to be speaking of is the idea of parallel universes. Especially when you say "a chance for multiple dimensions separated on the event of atomic chances." That sounds like the idea of parallel universes where every possibility is its own universe.
    The problem with that is, that would end in an open ended number of universes, essentially, infinite. While on its own, that idea is not impossible, if matter from each universe could interact, even if only gravitationally, with matter in each other universe, you'd have, essentially, an infinite amount of dark matter at each point in the universe.

    I actually dislike the idea of dark matter. It has the feel of an invention created simply for the purpose of smoothing over the flaws in our understanding of interactions on large scales. The same for dark energy for universal expansion.
    At the same time, I'd hate to see dark matter go unfound. It'd be a pity to think of all the years that scientists have wasted theorizing and studying its effects if it doesn't even exist!
    Last edited by Chambered; 07-13-2009 at 08:50 PM.

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    Well, I'm not exactly sure on your question. But dark matter is not, by any theory, mass from alternate dimensions. If this was so, the entire physical "area" within that dark matter would be entirely different (b/c its a different dimension!).

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    There are theories saying dark matter is from alternate dimensions (branes). In short, gravitons from other banes escape into ours. I'm not sure if that would be mass, but certainly at least matter.

    More eloquently from here:
    In brane-world theory, the ends of strings are anchored in our brane, so the particles we see can only move within the brane. But the particles that carry the gravitational force, known as gravitons, are closed strings -- little Cheerios -- and can "leak" out of the brane. This explains why gravity is much weaker than the electromagnetic force and the strong and weak nuclear forces. It also offers a possible explanation for the "dark matter" that astronomers need to explain why the mass of the universe doesn't agree with the observed objects. Dark matter could be in an adjacent brane, with its gravitons leaking into ours.
    Space is big.

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    E.T.'s Avatar
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    I have a feeling we just don't yet know how to "see" or think about "dark matter". One day it will all make perfectly good sense, and the reality probably won't be so far-fetched as our theories tend to get.

 

 
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