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  1. #11
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    I only listen to------- MICHIO KAKU! Ha!
    ETX 125PE, Stellarvue 80mm BV & Televue TelePod tripod, LX90 8" LNT, 10x50, 15x70mm binoculars, Stellarvue binoviewers, solar filters for all three telescopes..... plus a bunch of ham radios... Ham radio call sign - W1XWX

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    TelescopeMan Web Site

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    search for W1XWX to see my amateur radio web site

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  2. #12
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    Surprising he got a Nobel prize. I am not sure I would go so far as to call it a working hypothesis, more like a well thought out idea that has no basis or evidence whatsoever at this point in time. and again only MICHIO KAKU! Ha!

  3. #13
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    thank you Daniel. excellent reply.


    Metric expansion of space - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



    Quote Originally Posted by DanielC View Post
    I think the balloon with dots is a very good analogy. The dots are not "moving" within the balloon, it is the balloon that is stretching. That's the best explanation I can think of. I know it is very weird, but it is also the truth. Space itself is what expands.

    However, this might help a little: You have heard of length contraction and time dilation. Observers moving at different speeds will measure time and length differently. You also know that gravity makes time dilate as well, and clearly, if the speed of light is going to be constant, then gravity must affect space correspondingly.

    If we have already accepted that gravity can stretch space, that the notion of "length" and "time" are flexible and can be altered by gravitational fields, then maybe it is not so weird that the space between galaxies might also stretch.

  4. #14
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    It seems it would be more appropriate to talk about this on physics forums. Quick look up brings goodies right away.

    Multilayered multicolored cosmic superconductor (Wilczek's Grid as ground of being)

    Only problem is I have to join yet another forum and start from scratch. But interesting question it is, it requires multidisciplinary approach: quantum physics, cosmology and astronomy.
    Thanks everyone.

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  6. #15
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    Space Jockey

    Wilczek received Nobel prize for discovery of asymptotic freedom when he was 21. I would say-pretty sharp guy.

    http://www.theory.caltech.edu/~presk...bel2004_JP.pdf

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  8. #16
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    I never said he wasn't a sharp guy.

    But one is not infallible just because they might have worked out one solution to one particular problem, and again, he could be completely right, but there is not one shred of even anecdotal evidence so far.

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  10. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space Jockey View Post
    I never said he wasn't a sharp guy.

    But one is not infallible just because they might have worked out one solution to one particular problem, and again, he could be completely right, but there is not one shred of even anecdotal evidence so far.
    Agreed. A smart guy, but his idea is currently just an idea, a notion. Some times revolutions in physics start with a weird idea that is at the time untestable. The luminiferous aether, antimatter both began as just an idea. Later it became possible to test them, one turned out to be false and one turned out to be true. Here is an interesting it from Wikipedia:

    The term antimatter was first used by Arthur Schuster in two rather whimsical letters to Nature in 1898, in which he coined the term. He hypothesized antiatoms, whole antimatter solar systems and discussed the possibility of matter and antimatter annihilating each other. Schuster's ideas were not a serious theoretical proposal, merely speculation, and like the previous ideas, differed from the modern concept of antimatter in that it possessed negative gravity.

    Incidentally, I should note that we do not know whether antimatter has the same gravity as matter or if it has "antigravity" like Arthur Schuster imagined.
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  12. #18
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    I know the mere mention of the name provokes laughter among many astronomers, but I have taken a fancy to Halton Arp's ideas on this question. If we're ready to talk about Wilczek's grid, then Arp's ideas are worth mentioning. As far as I read him (*Seeing Red*), he claims it's a mistake to read all red-shift as a function of distance. In other words, the evidence for expansion is not as solid as it looks.

    Cleers,
    Joe
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  13. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BABOafrica View Post
    I know the mere mention of the name provokes laughter among many astronomers, but I have taken a fancy to Halton Arp's ideas on this question. If we're ready to talk about Wilczek's grid, then Arp's ideas are worth mentioning. As far as I read him (*Seeing Red*), he claims it's a mistake to read all red-shift as a function of distance. In other words, the evidence for expansion is not as solid as it looks.
    Ignoring all the data that contradicts his claims, how does he reconcile the fact that the mere existence of gravity implies that the universe is either expanding or contracting? How does he explain what the Cosmic Microwave Background is?

    And let's not forget that we don't even use Quasars (which is what he main contests) to measure the expansion of the universe, we use Type Ia supernovae. I also feel I should mention that you could throw away all the redshift data and you would still conclude that we are an expanding universe dominated by dark energy. For example, look at this plot:



    The blue line is redshift data from Type Ia SNe, the orange comes from the CMB, and the green is from Baryonic Acoustic Oscillations. You could throw away the blue and you'd still get basically the same model of the universe.

    And let's not forget data from galaxy clusters. That's in this plot:



    Again, you could throw away all the supernovae data and you'd still have roughly the same values for matter density and dark energy density.

    So, basically we have four pieces of data, or four "lines: (1) Redshift data from Type Ia SNe. (2) Cosmic Microwave Background. (3) Baryonic Acoustic Oscillations. (4) Cluster velocity data. These four lines intersect at one point in the diagram above. As they said in the O.J. Simpson trial, you could throw away half the evidence and you'd still get a conviction.
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  15. #20
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    I write the following with no little trepidation.

    Most of you have probably studied the hard core stuff. My knowledge is limited to the books that popularize what you have studied in depth.

    If you saw my list of books, you'd see that I've read some of the usual "right" stuff (Thomas Arny, Greene, Penrose, Sagan) and some of the "wrong" stuff (Ratcliff, Donald Scott, Arp, and most especially, Robert Laughlin).

    I have always been suspicious of "inflation". I see it as a mathematical "fix" for BB theory. I find it hard to swallow the notion that space expands.

    Now, mind you, I'm the kind of person who is suspicious of imaginary numbers because I think taking the square root of -1 is a neat mathematical trick but, in reality, a trick that allows us only the limited power of manipulating numbers without really knowing what we are doing. Therefore, I am suspicious of the "knowledge" that is gleaned from theories that depend on it.

    So, I can only say that I am truly grateful that you offer your posts. I realize I need to read a lot more. For instance, I know zero about the theory of BAO studies. I'll look into it.

    Cleers,
    Joe
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