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Thread: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?



    Quote Originally Posted by UlteriorModem View Post
    Okay I spent a little bit of time on it and here is what I noticed when processing.

    First, you don't need 100 flats I culled down the flats, darks, and bias to 20 each.

    Second, the image is very noisy but not surprising seeing as your light frames were in the neighborhood of 32C. Maybe put some pause between frames, I know it adds time to the run but gives the chip a few moments to cool down. I did not look at the trend of the tempratures but thought I would mention that if you do use live view for focusing or whatever wait a good long time before starting a run. Live view can really warm up the chip

    There was a good deal of LP background in the image and a lot of detail is lost in trying to minimize it.

    Lastly about the color. The color is there but the red channel is choked way down and the green channel is dominant. I am supposing that is because of the filters used. Also this is not a particulary colorfull object to begin with.

    This may sound crazy but maybe try a little shorter durations without the filter
    Thanks for taking the time to do all of that UM! I do not use Live View, I use BYEOS. The Live View do-hickey is always closed

    I believe you are seeing such high temps because I live in Southern California. When I start my imaging sessions these days it is still in the 90°s at 9PM!!! Granted at 3AM when I can image M31 it has probably dropped to a chilly 85°... If you look at my Lights you can see it says 90f in the name and those were taken between 2:46AM and 4:08AM so there's nothing I can do to combat that right now. :|

    Quote Originally Posted by A130STB View Post
    UM that's a fantastic job I am amazed at the information in the images from what was originally posted, Hats off to fatboy and your good self.
    Thanks A120STB!
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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls72 View Post
    Here is my quick stab at it.
    I usually have 3-5 bias frames, 10 flats and 10-20 darks.

    Attachment 139942
    Quote Originally Posted by UlteriorModem View Post
    I took another run at it this time not being aggressive with the noise. Knocking down the noise level really bites into the detail!

    Awesome Paul and UM!!! I can definitely see a lot more detail there This is fun seeing what others can do
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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

    Not an easy process but finally was able to bring out some nice details and color. Like they say LP filters do work but nothing can replace a nice dark imaging area. Of course more lights would help and the flats were not that even in exposure. I'd watch that and you really only need about 40 of them. I'd take at least 40 lights-20 darks and 40-50 flats. If your not using Darks then go ahead and use the bias frames but I did not need them in this particular run. Just keep adding to this one and it will be awesome.

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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leveye View Post
    Not an easy process but finally was able to bring out some nice details and color. Like they say LP filters do work but nothing can replace a nice dark imaging area. Of course more lights would help and the flats were not that even in exposure. I'd watch that and you really only need about 40 of them. I'd take at least 40 lights-20 darks and 40-50 flats. If your not using Darks then go ahead and use the bias frames but I did not need them in this particular run. Just keep adding to this one and it will be awesome.

    Fatboy MilkyWay 2.jpg
    WOW Leveye!!! That is more like what I was hoping I had in there

    Questions:
    1) "the flats were not that even in exposure"
    > I put the OTA straight up and down
    > Opened Notepad for my "white light"
    > Set my exposure length, 1/50 this time I think
    > Placed the laptop on top of the OTA
    > Ran my Flats
    > It was daylight by the time I was able to take Flats... could that be why you are saying they are not even in exposure?
    2) "I'd take at least 40 lights-20 darks and 40-50 flats. If your not using Darks then go ahead and use the bias frames..."
    > I always take Lights, Darks, and Bias
    > I am now trying to always take Flats too
    > Are you saying I don't need Bias as long as I have Flats?

    Thanks again, this looks great I really appreciate the other versions too but I think you started to find the details I was hoping for
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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

    Set my exposure length, 1/50 this time I think
    Use AV mode for the flats if you can. I know some cams wont let you but thought I would mention it.
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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leveye View Post
    Not an easy process but finally was able to bring out some nice details and color. Like they say LP filters do work but nothing can replace a nice dark imaging area. Of course more lights would help and the flats were not that even in exposure. I'd watch that and you really only need about 40 of them. I'd take at least 40 lights-20 darks and 40-50 flats. If your not using Darks then go ahead and use the bias frames but I did not need them in this particular run. Just keep adding to this one and it will be awesome.

    Fatboy MilkyWay 2.jpg
    I forgot to ask what program(s) you used?
    OTAs: Explore Scientific ED80 Essential Edition / The Little Guy (Celestron 90SLT) | Mount: Celestron Advanced VX | Gear: Canon 70D / Hutech LPS-D1-48 / ES 2" Field Flattener / QHY PoleMaster / Celestron GPS / ZWO ASI120MC / Orion 50mm Guide Scope
    Software: BackyardEOS Premium / PI / CPWI / Stellarium/StellariumScope / PHD2 / RegiStax 6 / AutoStakkert!2 / PIPP
    EPs: Stock Celestron 9mm and 24mm / Celestron Omni 32mm (I love this one!) / Celestron X-Cel LX 3x Barlow (I think 2X would have been smarter...)

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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

    Quote Originally Posted by UlteriorModem View Post
    Use AV mode for the flats if you can. I know some cams wont let you but thought I would mention it.
    I do have an AV mode. I had tried it once before but wasn't sure if that was correct. Does AV mode automatically know what exposure to use?
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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

    It should it adjusts shutter speed to suit the 'aperture' which is pretty much wide open and tries to 'adjust' automagically.

    A brief description

    Av: Aperture Priority Mode | Canon EOS Rebel T5i / 700D: The Creative Zone | Peachpit
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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

    Thank you and congrats on getting great usable data for us! Lots of fun seeing all these great different takes on it.


    Flats are only for removing the gradient caused by vignetting in the optical chain. That and removing pesky dust motes if present. For my flats I use a laptop with a solid white frame when I do mine for all my smaller scopes. Aperture priority mode. For the larger SCTs and Newts I use the sky at dusk or dawn usually pointed away from the Sun with a white t-shirt stretched over it. Again using Aperture priority to get an even exposure. You may have taken so many that the light changed? 98 is a bit much.

    You can use bias frames or dark frames to remove noise but I find that using both with DSLR work does not make that much difference. Seeing that your using a DSLR I'd opt for just using the dark frames. For those you want to use at least half of what your total light frames are. That's all I did here and it's not that noisy at all really. I used very little noise reduction either. Mostly just some color noise removal.

    Your lights look good just need way more of them. Keep at it!
    Last edited by Leveye; 08-10-2016 at 11:11 PM.
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    Default Re: M031: I'm Having Issues With Color and Detail... Wanna Try?

    Quote Originally Posted by fatboy1271 View Post
    I forgot to ask what program(s) you used?
    DSS to stack then I open that Tiff in Camera RAW and tweek the WB again and then into PS for levels and curves and then LR to sweeten to taste.
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