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  1. #41
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    Allan,

    Sorry... actually because you used the word "conscience" and created the fantasy that commercial licenses owners would always read it your way.. I do think it is a RUDE post. You imply those doing what Adobe tells them is the intent are less honest than someone who reads ambiguous language like you do..

    I do marketing support work for a very large software company. Nothing like an FAQ on licensing goes up on a topic like this without LCA review. You might be surprised how much web content must pass legal to insure no implied claims that could be litigated but ambulance chasers etc. None of it is drafted by the "web designer"

    Nor do they put janitors on the customer service lines.

    You were correct that the license language is ambiguous and could be read in a more officious / litigious way absent any clarification Much like courts often consult supporting records of debates etc to clarify intent on poorly written laws. We have intent form Adobe in multiple sources that clarifies the meaning.

    Adobe has clarified their intent.. case closed. Academic licenses granted properly are perpetual and not revoked when the licensee changes academic status. Right down to the fact that they can upgrade to the next version and then be under the full license granted with that upgrade.

    Nor are there special limits on usage for an academic license.

    Why on earth do you think you know better than Adobe what the intent of their license is?
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  3. #42
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    Getting back to the topic of thread Justifying Price of Photoshop....


    In looking at the equipment investments alone I have made the price tag of $300 and few extra bucks for the full blown CS3+ suite(bought as older version of software new) was very worthwhile...At $1999 original price tag, I would have hard time justifying it......that price just seems bit high for my veins.....I am glad I bought the full blown suite though, the adobe pdf creator alone gets lots of use....plus I do use Dreamweaver and Flash.

    Think about the money we used to spend on film and developing.....for price I paid I am quite happy, digital world of photography is great thing.

    Bottom line, at the price I paid for a legit new disc I am quite happy camper.......in comparison to money spent on gear the amount I paid was insignificant for a product whose layers tools are awesome....and it is licensed to me ( never read it,I pushed accept and install been happy since)

    There are many free apps and such plus those apps aimed at Astronomy processing, but bottom line at somewhere in the stages of my post process work, photoshop always comes into play.....I will say I did wait until I found a great price a long time before I commited to the purchase.........the one huge plus is there is tons of free training material online for photoshop.....and it comes in handy for website work and much more! I can state I was very weak in photoshop until I sat down with the various training materials, feeling much more proficient now. For many the decision will vary...but I suggest shop around a bit for older versions being sold new at steep discounts...just always verify that the vendor is legitimate.

    Will I upgrade it in future??? Well for now I am happy with tools it offers in CS3+, but if something huge came along I would look at upgrade path for sure.

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  5. #43
    Flea77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fogfire View Post
    Allan,

    Sorry... actually because you used the word "conscience" and created the fantasy that commercial licenses owners would always read it your way.. I do think it is a RUDE post.
    I apologize for my wording if you took offense.

    Quote Originally Posted by fogfire View Post
    You imply those doing what Adobe tells them is the intent are less honest than someone who reads ambiguous language like you do..
    You are the one using the word intent. The legally binding license agreement is quite clear. The website does not agree but is not a legally binding document. Draw whatever conclusions you wish from those two facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by fogfire View Post
    I do marketing support work for a very large software company. Nothing like an FAQ on licensing goes up on a topic like this without LCA review. You might be surprised how much web content must pass legal to insure no implied claims that could be litigated but ambulance chasers etc. None of it is drafted by the "web designer"
    And the company I work for of which I am an owner deals with license agreements daily for two school districts. Both school districts post things to their websites they should not on a regular basis because they hire plain old people and not a fleet of lawyers. Huge companies make mistakes all the time, as do small ones. When in doubt, I always side with the contract I signed (or license agreement I agreed to) as opposed to anything else. After all, I did not have to agree to the terms of their website before installing their software.

    Quote Originally Posted by fogfire View Post
    Nor do they put janitors on the customer service lines.
    Lets start with the fact that I said it was absurd and then let me help you understand what I was saying. That statement was meant to demonstrate that a standard customer service representitive has about as much knowledge of the legal aspects of software licensing as the janitor does. Neither is a lawyer, and neither has a position in the legal department of the company.

    Regardless, any statements made by anyone over the phone has no bearing on the enforcement of the license agreement you agreed to by installing the software.

    Quote Originally Posted by fogfire View Post
    You were correct that the license language is ambiguous and could be read in a more officious / litigious way absent any clarification Much like courts often consult supporting records of debates etc to clarify intent on poorly written laws. We have intent form Adobe in multiple sources that clarifies the meaning.
    I disagree. The license agreement makes it very clear. The website disagrees and some yahoo on the phone who probably did a search on Adobe's website and regurgitated that same information.

    Quote Originally Posted by fogfire View Post
    Adobe has clarified their intent.. case closed. Academic licenses granted properly are perpetual and not revoked when the licensee changes academic status. Right down to the fact that they can upgrade to the next version and then be under the full license granted with that upgrade.

    Nor are there special limits on usage for an academic license.

    Why on earth do you think you know better than Adobe what the intent of their license is?
    It is not I who thinks they know better. The license agreement which is the only legally binding document I agreed to is very clear. Nowhere in the license agreement does it say I agreed to read their website. Nowhere on the box does it say I had to read their website. However right on the top of the box it says

    NOTICE TO USERS:
    You must accept the license agreement and warranty terms to use this product.
    It also states exact that in twenty two different languages on a piece of paper inside the box. Nowhere does it say to see the online FAQ nor does it state I have to agree to the online FAQ, in any language.

    If the license agreement says I must be a student or teacher to use the product, and in multiple places with the product it states that I have to accept the terms of the license agreement to use the product, how exactly is that ambiguous?

    So at the risk of sounding rude again, should we contact you any time we want to understand the "intent" of companies instead of just reading the license agreement?

    Allan

  6. #44
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    Let's just agree to disagree folks.

    This ones getting close to being closed.
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  8. #45
    Phil Leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flea77 View Post
    Not being rude Phil, I certainly understand your point. Who was the person you spoke with? What was their position in the company? Were they in the legal department? Did you get anything in writing or at the very least record the conversation (with permission of course)?

    I mean seriously, can you say for a fact that it wasnt the janitor you spoke with on his last day before being layed off? I know that sounds absurd, but as absurd as it is, the person you spoke with may have just read the online FAQ which some web designer put together without ever actually reading the license agreement or talking to the legal department.

    Allan
    No offence taken. The person I spoke to was a Customer Service Representative... They did state their first name. I dont know if it was their last day of employment and i wouldnt care if it was. As a private individual I don't need to engage my lawyers or talk to the legal department of a major Corp. to purchase a piece of software for personal use :-)

    I was asking for advice, not entering into a legally-binding contract.
    I recognise that each countries laws are different, but here in the UK if you state terms and conditions on your website, that is no different to printing them on the shipping box or in an advertisement... Or indeed speaking them down the telephone.

    I really don't see what the issue is? As I said, it is down to each individual to assess their eligibility to take advantage of such schemes. In the case of THIS scheme it is clear that eligibility rests solely on the purchaser/licensee meeting the simple criteria on the date of purchase and the fact that they may fail to meet those criteria at a later date has no bearing or impact on anything.
    Regards
    Phil

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  9. #46
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    If you have always upgraded photoshop elements, be sure to register it because now and then they have special upgrade offers. I got CS4 for $299 when they offered an upgrade offer for photoshop elements 6 users. If you ever get that offer and purchase be sure to keep your elements version on hand because you will need it if ever have to reinstall on a new pc.
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  11. #47
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    New to Photoshop.... The latest iteration... Have to say I love it. Intuitive controls, extensive options, wealth of help/tutorials.... If you are spending the lettuce to get into this hobby I really don't see the problem. It's a multipurpose platform..... allows me to explore more aspects of amateur astronomy! Plus the traditional uses

    Also as an aside.... The quasi-pee pee contest is lame to see from the perspective of a newcomer enjoying the helpful forum atmosphere... Seems overdone... Not a fan of legalese warring. Happy Star Hunting

  12. #48
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    I personally think this thread has become very ridiculous. Lighten up guys. This is an astronomy forum, not a legal debating society.

    BTW, there is another 16/32/64 bit inexpensive alternative to CS5.... Star Tools.
    SXINIAS

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