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Thread: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

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    Default First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57



    I have been doing my basic DSO schooling on an AT65EDQ and, more recently, an SW100ED w/ FF/R. But with Jupiter rapidly becoming a better target, I moved my C11 Edge back on to the Atlas in the observatory. Since it is on there again, I wanted to try some short DSO stuff. The initial tests at 30 seconds looked promising but I wanted to go longer and knew I would have to guide. A while back I picked up an SV50 to use as a guide scope, but when I plugged in the SSAG it wouldn't come to focus! I regrouped and converted a Celestron 8x50 finder into a guide scope by trimming and fitting an adapter to go into the slightly cut down finder...and it worked So, with tools in hand I went after two targets: first M27 because I was familiar with it and had used it as my initial SW100ED target; I then went after M57 to see what I could do. I only managed 30 minutes for M27, but got 57 minutes of M57. Both were shot at f/10 for 90 seconds per exposure at ISO 1600. I also ran up 30 minutes worth of dark frames that I used to process both targets. Since this was mostly a night to experiment with the new guider and shooting at f/10, I am pretty satisfied with the results. I captured the images with my Hutech modified Canon T1i via APT, stacked in DSS, and finished in PS CS4. M57 looks a bit clipped to me, I'd appreciate suggestions on dealing with this; M27 looks all right to my eye. Any suggestions are much appreciated, I am still very new at the DSO game...thanks!

    M27 at f/10


    M57 at f/10


    Clear Skies,
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    Default Re: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

    Fantastic job Brian, not surprised one bit, looks like you been doing the DSO bit for long time! You have brought out some really great details in both objects, m57 is showing some really nice details, but you did clip lots of fine details out.. I would shoot to reprocess m57 from original data. What does the histogram on m57 look like? scratch this, I downloaded and looked at it.

    I looked at the histogram on m57 it does look like you clipped a bit, I would try reprocessing original data again on it. It looks like you have it right up against left side of histogram, try keeping it further out to right, away from the left edge. I try to do several stretches a little bit at a time, starting with black point, but stay well away from where the curve goes up, keeping the left side foot of histogram intact, there is lots of fine detail hidden on the left side of the histogram and it is too easy to push for darker background early resulting in precious data loss. The color of your background in m27 looks much more natural, shoot for something along this line.
    Last edited by DaltonSkyGazer; 09-08-2013 at 10:50 AM.
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    Default Re: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

    Great Images Brian lots of detail.
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    Default Re: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

    Quote Originally Posted by DaltonSkyGazer View Post
    Fantastic job Brian, not surprised one bit, looks like you been doing the DSO bit for long time! You have brought out some really great details in both objects, m57 is showing some really nice details, but you did clip lots of fine details out.. I would shoot to reprocess m57 from original data. What does the histogram on m57 look like? scratch this, I downloaded and looked at it.

    I looked at the histogram on m57 it does look like you clipped a bit, I would try reprocessing original data again on it. It looks like you have it right up against left side of histogram, try keeping it further out to right, away from the left edge. I try to do several stretches a little bit at a time, starting with black point, but stay well away from where the curve goes up, keeping the left side foot of histogram intact, there is lots of fine detail hidden on the left side of the histogram and it is too easy to push for darker background early resulting in precious data loss. The color of your background in m27 looks much more natural, shoot for something along this line.
    Thanks Jeff! So I went back in and pulled to the right a good bit, it looks rather more "natural" to me now. I also touched up the vibrance and color balance while I was in there. My big problem is that right now I don't really have any kind of an established work flow...I'm just poking around and experimenting a bit. I would really like to hear about other folks routines so that I can get some idea of where to start without reinventing the wheel each time

    Here is the reworked M57:


    Edit: I just noticed a new issue. Why does the nebula now appear to be inside of a darker circle? Ah, the mysteries of DSO processing! Please advise...

    Clear Skies, Brian
    Last edited by BKBrown; 09-08-2013 at 04:48 PM.
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    Default Re: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

    These are nice in my experience it can be tough to guide a C11 at F10 using a small guidescope. With the 50mm I never could get more then 2-2.5 minutes.

    My only question is where are the Jovian images?
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    Default Re: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

    Amazing! Great job!

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    Default Re: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

    Quote Originally Posted by corpusse View Post
    These are nice in my experience it can be tough to guide a C11 at F10 using a small guidescope. With the 50mm I never could get more then 2-2.5 minutes.

    My only question is where are the Jovian images?
    Thanks! Yeah, I am afraid I will very quickly run into the limitations of the guider pushing 2800mm of focal length. No doubt a reducer would help, but I want the image scale at f/10 for planetary nebulae and galaxies - so I need to deal with the guiding. Maybe an OAG is in the cards. At any rate I am having fun and learning a lot, so all is well. As for Jove, he is still hovering too close to my neighbors roofs into the wee hours, it will probably be a couple of more weeks before I can get serious there

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    Default Re: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

    Very nice Brian
    F10 is a bear to start playing with DSO objects but it doesn't seem to be an issue with you
    That AT65EDQ would be a nice guide scope in a pinch as long as you keep the guide scope at the same orientation as the C11 (Polar Axis of the mount)
    that way you'll eliminate rotation as an issue and be able to crank up the subs to 5-6 minutes.
    50mm is pushing it
    at least the AT65EDQ has a little more FL.
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    Default Re: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

    Quote Originally Posted by kwalker View Post
    Very nice Brian
    F10 is a bear to start playing with DSO objects but it doesn't seem to be an issue with you
    That AT65EDQ would be a nice guide scope in a pinch as long as you keep the guide scope at the same orientation as the C11 (Polar Axis of the mount)
    that way you'll eliminate rotation as an issue and be able to crank up the subs to 5-6 minutes.
    50mm is pushing it
    at least the AT65EDQ has a little more FL.
    Thanks Ken! I am pretty comfortable shooting at extreme focal lengths due to my lunar and planetary work, so f/10 doesn't seem too unnatural for DSOs Tracking is the 800 pound gorilla in the room and the little 50mm guider is only marginally effective with the C11. I have the AT65EDQ and WO ZS66SD for guider duty, and an ADM Max Guider to hold them - zero flexure issues guaranteed. Problem is the Max Guider is rather heavy, so combine it with the WO 66SD and the rig weighs about ten pounds. Not a big deal with another small wide field scope or the SW100ED, but with the C11 it takes the load to nearly 40 pounds...the max recommended weight for an Atlas. So I'm starting to think OAG - anyone have a recommendation?

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    Default Re: First steps with the C11 Edge: M27 and M57

    I think this is what your looking for if your using a Canon DSLR Teleskop Service Thin Off-Axis Guider - M48/T2 - OPT Telescopes
    you can adapt it to just about any camera/telescope
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