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Thread: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017



    What the..? JG... What kind of skies do you have out there? I thoroughly scoured the Monoceros area and the only thing I could view was SH 2-280... Oh, now I'm checking in IDSA, it's because Sh 2-282 and 284 are designated as above 12dob capacity, with the former needing H Beta, the latter OIII. Can they really be seen? Is it worth for me drawing maps to them and trying to find them? Did you use filters? And with an 82mm scope? I could hardly see Sh-280 with the 8dob! DId you have dark skies?
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  2. #12
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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

    Hello Milan,

    here is evidently the IDSA misleading, as these objects are included in the STAR-Guide Atlas as visible through the small-to-medium telescopes.
    The observations have been made under the alpine skies at the elevation of 1800 meters with any haze blown away due to the falling wind. The Rosette has revealed structures without any filter used.
    This makes the difference to your observing site.

    So under these circumstances, the Sh2-280 and Sh2-282 have been no problem even for the small APO 82mm. They are 40 arcminutes across, and so the magnifications of 25x - 30x are comfortably above the minimum detection magnification with the averted-to-direct vision even for the small telescopes. In another words, there is enough angular stretch across the retina in eye for the averted vision and for binning the ganglions.
    The Sh2-284, due to its 80 arcminutes extent, has required quite a lot of patience and averted vision trials at the magnification of 25x, which is a bit too high, as reported.

    The Sh2-280, Sh2-282, and Sh2-284 are listed as the medium brightness Sharpless nebulae, with the brightness value of 2 on the scale 1-2-3. So, it is questionable, where the IDSA derives its recommendation from.

    The basic reference objects to tell you if you can see these nebulae or not, is the visibility of the comparatively bright Sh2-264 Lambda Orioni Nebula and of the Barnard's Loop Sh2-276 through the 40mm binoculars. If you can't see them, then you do not need to go for the Rosette Molecular Cloud Nebulae.
    I have checked out the Sh2-264 and Sh2-276 through the 8.5x42 Swarovski Swarovision EL binoculars, and the both nebulae have been comfortably bright, making the way free for the Rosette Molecular Cloud Nebulae. Moreover, both the Barnard Loop and the Sh2-284 cross (or touch) the zero declination, so a drop of visibility below the celestial equator could have been excluded.

    Last, but not least is the quality of the optics (contrast and transmittance of light) which also what matters. And here the APO refractors have an edge.

    Hoping this helps,

    JG
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  3. #13
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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

    Excellent post JG! And from a fellow skier, as well...

    The visibility predictions in IDSA are a good estimate for decent skies, but just an ESTIMATE. In excellent skies a scope will go deeper and pick up objects that they are not predicted to detect.
    I would guess that very many of the objects in IDSA are depicted by a formula of predicted visibility (magnitude/surface brightness), while many others are based on actual observations.

    It's fun to push your scope. Sometimes you win; sometimes you lose.
    Gordon

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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

    It's just amazing you can see all of these in an 80mm. I have trouble finding M1 in my 235mm!
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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

    Oh, well that figures, JG, if you saw structure in the Rosette nebula with no filter... wow! I had a hard time with my 8dob and WITH filter, to see anything at all in there! 1800 elevation! Great!

    Then I'll keep calm and not chase after the other Sharpless thingies you mentioned. It's obvious that I won't even get close to them...
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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

    Hello Milan, hello Arctic, and thanks for the comments!

    There are a few more Sharpless objects with a widespread consense you'd need a larger Dob to view them.

    The Wolf-Rayet Nebula Sh2-132 has been first reported and sketched by Ronald Stoyan through a 16" Dob, and published in the Interstellarum Magazine. This has been corrected in the STAR-Guide as an object for the medium apertures, like 8". I can see this nebula through the 15x85 binoculars with the OIII filters, whenever I can see the Elephant Trunk through the 7x42 binoculars.

    The Sh2-92 in Cygnus, recommended to me by Alan, is another tough low surface brightness object for the larger apertures, and so is the Sh2-84 in Sagitta. I can see these both objects from my backyard through the 6" achro refractor, whenever I can recognize the nearby low contrast Lynd's dark nebulae LDN 772, 778 and around in western Velpecula, through the 15x85 binoculars. Otherwise, no chance for the Sh2-92, Sh2-84, and some others in that area of skies.

    From my point of view, the decissive is the contrast of the night skies, the contrast performance of the optics,
    and the observer's patience and persistence.

    I hope, that I'll will find time to write a review on the visual observing of the Sharpless nebulae, as selected for the binoculars and for the small telescopes.

    Thank you all once again,

    JG
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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

    I always enjoy your excellent posts, JG.
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  12. #18
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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

    Hey JG, thanks for NGC 2467! I checked it and it was so fine! Almost nothing without filter, nice greying with OIII filter! I also viewed some 20 new open clusters and double stars and two planetary nebulae while I was at it. But if youhad not written about the nebula, I would not have bothered that low on the horizon. I even found M 3-4 (what a name! ) planetary nebula, which Stellarium does not plot, only IDSA. I approximated the place in the FOV and found it.

    But NGC 2467 was a great nebula, thanks!
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  13. #19
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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

    Hello Milan,

    glad to see that you have enjoyed the NGC 2467, it has also been a nice surprize for me.

    You certainly know, that I am crazy about the planetary nebulae.
    It might be helpful for our members, should you find time to list all planetaries besides the Messier, NGC/IC, you have observed through your Dobs. There are so many within the reach, people don't know about.

    Thank you again,

    JG
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    Default Re: Sh2-280, Sh2-282, Sh2-284, and Sh2-311 nebulae in March 2017

    I ran a quick check through my list. Min 1-9 Footprint Nebula and Campbell's Hydrogen Star in Cygnus, Abell 21 Medusa Nebula in Gemini. This is what I have that is NOT NGC or IC out of the 59 planetaries that I have viewed. Though they may have NGC numbers, and I just don't have them listed. Happy hunting, right?
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