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Thread: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

  1. #1
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    Default H-beta filter for visual - worth it?



    So visual observation I've seen the Astronomik Hb (visual)

    However the blurb given is this:

    " The H-ß filter is to be used from a aperture of more than 8" (20cm) on. At smaller instruments there is not enough light available for a sensible use. "

    Now, I've heard elsewhere though that smaller apertures can actually benefit though - I don't really see why it would be that only large apertures could benefit from the filter to be honest. I know I'm getting h-beta through my Astronomik UHC filter with the 120ST so why would this be any different? The light transmission % is over 90% looking at the frequency response graph which is considerably higher than others like the cheap Skywatcher H-beta filter and even the Baader 8.5nm CCD only is really passing 60% of the light.

    http://www.astronomik.com/media/prod...beta_trans.png

    BTW, this is not just to see the Horsehead! In Interstellarum there are loads of Hb targets some of which are not well known and smaller nebulae mainly composed of H-beta noted in Interstellarum as Hb as the filter of choice for viewing it.

    I'm hoping to get out in to the countryside mainly with the 120ST for going for a host of emission nebulae which contain considerable Hb - it will be considerably darker than the mag 5 ish sky I normally observe in - I would say it's going to be closer to mag 6 NELM and most importantly devoid of any local light pollution which is so important for proper dark adaption.

    So... Any others here using a h-beta filter for visual than can advise or is indeed 120mm aperture not going to be enough for a filter like this and I should just save my money and use the UHC / OIII (not a problem!)
    j.gardavsky likes this.
    Scopes etc: Skywatcher 12" Dob; Skywatcher 80ED & 120ST; EQ5; Grab and Go Alt/Az; 60mm RACI & Rigel Quickfinder.
    Eyepieces: Tele Vue Panoptic 24mm, Delos 10/14/17.3mm; Pentax XW 5/7mm; ES Maxvision 28mm; Baader Classic 10/32mm
    Filters: Astronomik UHC and OIII; Baader OIII; ES H-Beta
    Herschel 400 (H1) Count: 162

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    Default Re: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

    Hello Dave,

    I have a pair of the Astronomik H-Beta filters, and I am using them even on my binoculars.
    The issue with the H-Beta is, the light flux on the H-Beta line is just a small fraction of that on the OIII doublet. That's the reason why the manufacturers say that the H-Beta filters are working on larger apertures, like 20cm.

    So, with your 120mm scope aperture, there will be not many nebulae offering great views with any H-Beta filter on the market, and in most cases, the Astronomik UHC filter will be enough. I take the Astronomik UHC filter often for the HII regions in the so called Cygnus X area, including the Pelican Nebula.

    When you want to go for the Horse Head Nebula, then you'll need the H-Beta filter. On my suburban skies, I stack the both Astronomik H-Beta filters to reduce the band-pass down to 5nm to pull out the Horse Head. Here the Lumicon H-Beta with its 6nm is the cheaper way to go.

    If fifty bucks are burning in your pocket, then take the blue(RGB)CCD Baader Baader LRGB Anti-Reflection Filter Set - 1.25" # FLRGB-1 2458472 , which passes all visible nebular lines: OIII, H-Beta, H-Gamma, H-Delta. I am using this filter for the difficult Sharpless', Lynd's and vandenBergh's nebulae, whenever the skies are really clear, and free from humidity.

    Best,

    JG
    bladekeeper, Bigzmey and Testgear like this.
    Binoculars: Leica Ultravid 7x42, 8x42HD; Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision; Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe; Docter Nobilem 7x50 Porro; Jenoptem 7x50W, 10x50W; BA8: 10.5x70, 15x85; 25x100FB, AsahiPentax 8x40, Refractors: Sky-Watcher 150mm/750mm; Leica APO Televid 82mm (25x-50x WW ASPH); EPs:Baader Classic Orthos; Fujiyama ortho, Leica B WW, ultrawide zoom ASPH, Periplan GF, HC Plan S, L; DOCTER UWA; Wild UW mil; Tele Vue Delos, Nagler Zoom, Plössls; Swarovski SW; Pentax XW; ZEISS diascope B WW T*, Carl Zeiss E-Pl; Hensoldt mil; Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader (CCD), TS;
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    Default Re: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

    Many thanks, JG! Great info as always!

    The Baader B-CCD filter costs pretty much the same so it may well be an option. I think I'll see how I get on first with just the UHC on these difficult nebulae from the dark site with the 120ST.
    j.gardavsky likes this.
    Scopes etc: Skywatcher 12" Dob; Skywatcher 80ED & 120ST; EQ5; Grab and Go Alt/Az; 60mm RACI & Rigel Quickfinder.
    Eyepieces: Tele Vue Panoptic 24mm, Delos 10/14/17.3mm; Pentax XW 5/7mm; ES Maxvision 28mm; Baader Classic 10/32mm
    Filters: Astronomik UHC and OIII; Baader OIII; ES H-Beta
    Herschel 400 (H1) Count: 162

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    Default Re: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

    Hello Dave,

    just an addendum: the blue(RGB)CCD filter is also, even if not always, helpful on the reflection nebulae, when their light is due to the bluish Rayleigh scattering on the molecular clouds. The Mie scattering on micron-sized dust is shifted towards blue-green.

    Best,

    JG
    Binoculars: Leica Ultravid 7x42, 8x42HD; Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision; Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe; Docter Nobilem 7x50 Porro; Jenoptem 7x50W, 10x50W; BA8: 10.5x70, 15x85; 25x100FB, AsahiPentax 8x40, Refractors: Sky-Watcher 150mm/750mm; Leica APO Televid 82mm (25x-50x WW ASPH); EPs:Baader Classic Orthos; Fujiyama ortho, Leica B WW, ultrawide zoom ASPH, Periplan GF, HC Plan S, L; DOCTER UWA; Wild UW mil; Tele Vue Delos, Nagler Zoom, Plössls; Swarovski SW; Pentax XW; ZEISS diascope B WW T*, Carl Zeiss E-Pl; Hensoldt mil; Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader (CCD), TS;
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    Default Re: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

    Thanks JG! OK, that would make it more worth it. Reflection nebulae are definitely the most difficult in my book so anything that helps with the additional contrast with these is definitely a big plus.

    Like narrow-band does this filter require a high exit pupil (5mm+) or it's OK with lower values so can be used with higher power?
    j.gardavsky likes this.
    Scopes etc: Skywatcher 12" Dob; Skywatcher 80ED & 120ST; EQ5; Grab and Go Alt/Az; 60mm RACI & Rigel Quickfinder.
    Eyepieces: Tele Vue Panoptic 24mm, Delos 10/14/17.3mm; Pentax XW 5/7mm; ES Maxvision 28mm; Baader Classic 10/32mm
    Filters: Astronomik UHC and OIII; Baader OIII; ES H-Beta
    Herschel 400 (H1) Count: 162

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    Default Re: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

    Hello Dave,

    the blue(RGB)CCD filter has the pass-band 395nm - 505nm (aproximately) with 96% average transmissivity,
    http://www.baader-planetarium.de/sek...blau_gross.gif ,
    so I am using all the sorts of magnifications as without this filter.
    Once again, this filter works fine when there is no noticeable humidity in the atmosphere, as the humidity scatters light around the stars in small bluish halos.
    I love this filter on the Orion nebular complex (M42, M43, The Running Man reflection nebula).
    I am using this filter also on some galaxies, like the M33, and also other people have reported this filter on their galaxies observations.

    Best,

    JG
    Binoculars: Leica Ultravid 7x42, 8x42HD; Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision; Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe; Docter Nobilem 7x50 Porro; Jenoptem 7x50W, 10x50W; BA8: 10.5x70, 15x85; 25x100FB, AsahiPentax 8x40, Refractors: Sky-Watcher 150mm/750mm; Leica APO Televid 82mm (25x-50x WW ASPH); EPs:Baader Classic Orthos; Fujiyama ortho, Leica B WW, ultrawide zoom ASPH, Periplan GF, HC Plan S, L; DOCTER UWA; Wild UW mil; Tele Vue Delos, Nagler Zoom, Plössls; Swarovski SW; Pentax XW; ZEISS diascope B WW T*, Carl Zeiss E-Pl; Hensoldt mil; Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader (CCD), TS;
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    Default Re: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

    Indeed, I was thinking particularly of the Running Man - although I've seen this with the UHC filter without too much difficulty. Have you used it on M45 which is notoriously difficult to extract the nebulosity? I've managed it once with the UHC but it was extremely faint.
    Scopes etc: Skywatcher 12" Dob; Skywatcher 80ED & 120ST; EQ5; Grab and Go Alt/Az; 60mm RACI & Rigel Quickfinder.
    Eyepieces: Tele Vue Panoptic 24mm, Delos 10/14/17.3mm; Pentax XW 5/7mm; ES Maxvision 28mm; Baader Classic 10/32mm
    Filters: Astronomik UHC and OIII; Baader OIII; ES H-Beta
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    Default Re: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

    Hello Dave,

    the blue(RGB)CCD filter does not help much on the Merope in M45, as this one is mostly due to the Mie scattering on dust, here we are in the "dusty Taurus area". It can help on some other reflection nebulae in M45.
    The Merope nebula can be best seen with the big binoculars, as the binocular vision is more sensitive to the small contrast differences.

    Here is a short extract of the DSOs, whre I have seen some improvement with the blue(RGB)CCD filter*
    IC 417 Spider Nebula EN 15x85 bino
    IC 5068 "Arc below North America" EN 15x85 bino
    M33 galaxy 150mm/750 refractor
    M78 RN 15x85 bino
    M81 Bode's Galaxy GLX 150mm/750 refractor: 107x - 250x (larger extent revealed)
    NGC 1931 Fly Nebula EN 15x85 bino
    Running Man Nebula Sh2-279 RN 15x85 bino
    NGC 2024 Flame Nebula EN 15x85 bino
    NGC 2264 Christmas Tree Nebula EN + RN 15x85 bino
    NGC 2903 Leo's Head Galaxy 150mm/750 refr.: 75x (larger extent revealed)
    NGC 7380 Clamshell EN in OC 25x100 bino
    vdB023 in M45 Alcyone Nebula RN 150mm/750 refr.: 47x (pulled out the invisibility)
    Sh2-264 "The Lambda Orionis Nebula" EN 15x85 bino
    most planetary nebulae reveal as expected more brightness

    I have two blue(RGB)CCD filters for the binoculars.

    Best,

    JG

    )* Checking the performance of the filters on the DSOs is my ongoing (and never ending) agenda
    Binoculars: Leica Ultravid 7x42, 8x42HD; Swarovski EL 8.5x42 Swarovision; Nikon 10x70 Astroluxe; Docter Nobilem 7x50 Porro; Jenoptem 7x50W, 10x50W; BA8: 10.5x70, 15x85; 25x100FB, AsahiPentax 8x40, Refractors: Sky-Watcher 150mm/750mm; Leica APO Televid 82mm (25x-50x WW ASPH); EPs:Baader Classic Orthos; Fujiyama ortho, Leica B WW, ultrawide zoom ASPH, Periplan GF, HC Plan S, L; DOCTER UWA; Wild UW mil; Tele Vue Delos, Nagler Zoom, Plössls; Swarovski SW; Pentax XW; ZEISS diascope B WW T*, Carl Zeiss E-Pl; Hensoldt mil; Filters: Astrodon, Astronomik, Baader (CCD), TS;
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    Default Re: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

    Many thanks once again JG!
    j.gardavsky likes this.
    Scopes etc: Skywatcher 12" Dob; Skywatcher 80ED & 120ST; EQ5; Grab and Go Alt/Az; 60mm RACI & Rigel Quickfinder.
    Eyepieces: Tele Vue Panoptic 24mm, Delos 10/14/17.3mm; Pentax XW 5/7mm; ES Maxvision 28mm; Baader Classic 10/32mm
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    Default Re: H-beta filter for visual - worth it?

    I noticed that a shop here is doing the Explore Scientific H beta filter half price. The transmission graph for this looks very similar to the Astronomik graph. Full price it's a similar price to the Astronomik as well. So I took the plunge... . I've got a few H beta targets I'd like to go for so this may help with the extra contrast. IC434 and the horsehead here we come.... haha.
    j.gardavsky and bladekeeper like this.
    Scopes etc: Skywatcher 12" Dob; Skywatcher 80ED & 120ST; EQ5; Grab and Go Alt/Az; 60mm RACI & Rigel Quickfinder.
    Eyepieces: Tele Vue Panoptic 24mm, Delos 10/14/17.3mm; Pentax XW 5/7mm; ES Maxvision 28mm; Baader Classic 10/32mm
    Filters: Astronomik UHC and OIII; Baader OIII; ES H-Beta
    Herschel 400 (H1) Count: 162

 

 
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