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Thread: Geocentric View

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Geocentric View



    Quote Originally Posted by KathyNS View Post
    Yes. When we say that an object is "in" a constellation, it means that the object is between us and the constellation, so the constellation forms the object's background.
    Dear KathyNS,

    Thank you for your reply!

    Dr. T

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    Default Re: Geocentric View

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
    Astrology is an ancient pseudoscience with origins thought to be in Babylonia, perhaps more than 4,000 years ago, when people began looking for meaning in the physical world that could somehow be related to human reality, i.e., that human destiny was mystically controlled by celestial events. It's not my belief, and I doubt you will find that any of the regular participants here will hold that belief, either.

    So, since this is an astronomy forum, it is perhaps not the best place to come looking for more information about the history of astrology.

    I'm sure if you googled "history of astrology" you would get a lot more information than you've received here. There are surely many more astrology websites than amateur astronomy ones.

    If you are, however, genuinely interested in the science of astronomy, there is a lot of great information on this site.
    Dear Voyageur,

    Thank you for your reply!

    I realize that this is an astronomers'. not an astrologers', forum. However, to understand the "mechanics" of the heavens, one asks an astronomer, not an astrologer.


    Dr. T

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    Default Re: Geocentric View

    Quote Originally Posted by AsteroidsRock View Post
    This might help ...
    Dear AsteroidsRock,

    Thank you for your reply!

    Dr. T

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Geocentric View

    Astrology..... I actually know how it's done. I spent a day looking at it a long time ago, sixty years. There were some abandoned books on it that I discovered during one of my family's moves. Here are a couple observations.

    The criticism that the positions of the constellations don't match the astrological houses, which is often made by science folks is a straw man fallacy. When an astrologer says that "your natal chart has Venus in Aries" they are not saying that "Venus is in the constellation Aries". They are saying that "Venus is in the astrological house of Aries". Equivalently they are saying "Venus is in the first 30 degrees along the ecliptic from the intersection of the celestial equator with the ecliptic".

    At the time astrology was invented the astrological houses (each ~30 degrees along the ecliptic) had various constellations behind them. So the astrological houses got named in accord with those constellation names. But the Earth's rotation precesses and as a result the constellations move away from the astrological houses that they gave their name to.

    The Earth's precession takes 26,000 years to complete. It's about 6,000 years since Sumerian and Babylonian astrology was invented. The western names now used are from Ptolemy ~2,000 years ago. So we have another 24,000 years to wait for the astrological houses and constellations to line up again.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

    Just to be clear, although I know how it's done, of course I don't believe in it. It's a random advice generator with no value.

    Incidentally this is why efforts to debunk astrology by appealing to the mismatch of astrological houses and constellations are doomed to failure. The astrologer knows they aren't supposed to match and that you haven't a clue how it's supposed to work.

    In astronomy this precessional nomenclature problem ALSO persists. The position of the Sun on the northern vernal equinox is called "The First Point of Aries" because ~2,000 yrs ago it was in Aries. It's in Pisces now. Similarly the northern autumnal equinox is called "The First Point of Libra" though now it's in Virgo.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Point_of_Aries

    The First Point of Aries (now in Pisces) is the prime celestial meridian from which Right Ascension is calculated.

    So while we can certainly dismiss astrology as a superstition with no supporting science, it's unfair to dismiss it because astrological houses are not the same as constellations.
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    Default Re: Geocentric View

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorT View Post
    Dear Voyageur,

    Thank you for your reply!

    I realize that this is an astronomers'. not an astrologers', forum. However, to understand the "mechanics" of the heavens, one asks an astronomer, not an astrologer.


    Dr. T
    You're welcome. It was not clear from your initial question what your understanding/perspective was about these two tangentially connected human pursuits, nor what the goal of your inquiry was. I would have responded differently if you had been as specific at the outset as in your subsequent post about your research; no offense was intended in suggesting that you look at other sources for information about the principles of astrology.

    Shouldn't an astrologer, at least one who has made a serious study of the subject, know the things nFA has explained in his post? I would think they do, but, as nFA suggests, perhaps they don't go into all that because they know their clients are probably not going to understand any of the astronomy anyway. His information did come from astrology books, not astronomy books. Who knows, maybe astrology web sites are not as complete as [old] books on the subject...

    I don't mean to suggest that your inquiries about astronomical principles are out of place; you are certainly welcome to ask all the astronomy questions here that you like!
    Mary


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    Default Re: Geocentric View

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
    Shouldn't an astrologer, at least one who has made a serious study of the subject, know the things nFA has explained in his post? I would think they do, but, as nFA suggests, perhaps they don't go into all that because they know their clients are probably not going to understand any of the astronomy anyway. His information did come from astrology books, not astronomy books. Who knows, maybe astrology web sites are not as complete as [old] books on the subject...
    I don't think that astrology web sites present the subject as completely as old books on the topic at all. My recollection of the old books found derelict was that they were already old then! Circa WWI publications. Later in university and graduate school I assisted teaching astronomy and physics courses for non science folks, some who dabbled in this. They didn't know precession from procession.

    Yet, remember, Kepler made his living and supported his astronomical research by doing astrology. He was certainly aware of the distinction between astrological houses and astronomical constellations. His position as court astrologer to Rudolf II required it. Kepler is a fascinating character and my curiosity was motivated by the question "What was he thinking?" Of course, we'll never know, but that old book I came across made much of Kepler.

    Anyway the individual who abandoned the astrology books also left some astronomy behind in which Pluto had not been discovered yet.
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    Default Re: Geocentric View

    nFA, can you recommend a biography of Kepler?
    Mary


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    Default Re: Geocentric View

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
    nFA, can you recommend a biography of Kepler?
    I'd be delighted.

    https://www.amazon.com/Watershed-Bio.../dp/0819143391

    https://www.amazon.com/Kepler-Dover-.../dp/0486676056

    I think the Caspar is better than the Koestler.
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    Default Re: Geocentric View

    Quote Originally Posted by not_Fritz_Argelander View Post
    Thank you! I need a book for my upcoming drive, Michigan to Mexico. Once I am settled in the van/camper for the night, it is a great joy to just curl up in my little space, dog and cats by my side, and read a good book.

    Just placed my order for the Caspar. Last one in stock! Should have it by Monday. (I leave next Saturday.)
    Mary


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    Default Re: Geocentric View

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
    Thank you! I need a book for my upcoming drive, Michigan to Mexico. Once I am settled in the van/camper for the night, it is a great joy to just curl up in my little space, dog and cats by my side, and read a good book.

    Just placed my order for the Caspar. Last one in stock! Should have it by Monday. (I leave next Saturday.)
    I hope you enjoy it and safe pleasant travel as well!

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