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Thread: Fast cmos sensor

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    Default Fast cmos sensor



    Hello to all! I'm working on an high speed adaptive optical system and looking for the fastest cmos sensor with a frame resolution no more then 1M. For now i have found Lux13hs and lux19hs. but there are cameras on the market that promise to shoot up to 100,000 fps! like this I-speed 756 from ix-cameras - how it can be true? What sensor is used in such a camera?

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    Default Re: Fast cmos sensor

    Hi Tov, and welcome here to the Forum!

    You question might be handled better by the folks in the Astro Imaging Forum.

    Good luck, and clear skies!

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    Default Re: Fast cmos sensor

    Quote Originally Posted by Tov.Belousov View Post
    Hello to all! I'm working on an high speed adaptive optical system and looking for the fastest cmos sensor with a frame resolution no more then 1M. For now i have found Lux13hs and lux19hs. but there are cameras on the market that promise to shoot up to 100,000 fps! like this I-speed 756 from ix-cameras - how it can be true? What sensor is used in such a camera?
    That is an interesting question. It is not, however, the kind of thing we normally worry about on a forum like this one because we usually are not looking for either extremely high frame rates and we pay little to no attention to Lux numbers.

    We're typically more interested in the SNR of the sensor and unless we have a very large telescope we usually don't have the ability to make good use of a frame rate over 200-300 fps.

    The fastest camera out there I believe is the T-CUP which pushes the frame rate to something like 10 trillion frames per second but I don't know what sensor it uses. Well, actually, it may be using two sensors.

    I'm curious as to what project you might be working on that you would want a "fast" camera/sensor. I know it involves adaptive optics but that's about all. We might be able to help you out with your project but we'd probably need to have some idea as to the desired result. What kind of frame rate do you think you will need? What kind of light source? Things like that.

    Do note that the sensor may be only a small portion of the puzzle. With very high frame rates you can have problems simply transferring the data to your storage media - and your drive may simply not be able to handle the amount of data which is sent to it. Even with our relatively modest sensors, for planetary imaging many of us will require a SSD because the typical hard drive just cannot handle the amount of data flooding in.

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    Default Re: Fast cmos sensor

    In AstroPhotography cameras, we don't care about Lux and normally we are looking to take longer images, not how many or how fast.

    We look at Pixel/Photosite size, Well Depth, SNR (Signal to Noise Ratio) and Qe (Quantum Efficiency).
    Well Depth is how much charge can each Pixel/Photosite hold.
    Qe is the percentage of photons that hit the sensor that are captured. There are BSI (Back Side Illuminated) sensors that are around 90% efficent.
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    Default Re: Fast cmos sensor

    Good day! I was pleasantly surprised by your answers. It seems that you are right and my question does not fit into the topic of the forum. Nevertheless, the solution of my problem is intended to help, including in astronomy, to measure the distortions introduced by the atmosphere of the earth. The essence of the developed adaptive system is a very rapid assessment of the wave front of the laser beam (optical or short infrared). System will be based on own PCB with FPGA.
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    Default Re: Fast cmos sensor

    Thank you. We do appreciate adaptive optics. Since that is typically used with much larger (and more expensive) instruments than are typical for amateur astronomy we don't normally track that bit of technology.

    Since we don't track that, I certainly don't know the needed parameters for the camera/sensor you seek. We do have members who just might know the state-of-the-art camera/sensor you seek but we'd probably need to know exactly what you seek and that may include physical size.

    So when you talk 1 megapixel I don't know whether the constraint is because you are thinking of relatively small pixel sizes and keeping the pixel count small means the sensor is physically small or (more likely) - you don't need lots of pixels and staying with a relatively low-resolution sensor means you don't need to handle as much data and that means faster (more real-time) processing and adjustments.

    So we can take a quick look at something like this Adimec: https://www.adimec.com/1000-frames-p...trial-cameras/ The sensor does appear likely to be much larger than desired but you can define a much smaller ROI and it becomes effectively both faster and smaller.

    When we know more about the required parameters (just how fast do you need?) we may be able to search more effectively and/or make suggestions about where you might search.

    Do note that some sensors are on the market but are effectively unavailable through normal channels because the demand within a country of manufacture has been enough or the government is effectively restricting the export. So as an example some of the GSENSE products have been around for a long time but people very much interested in using some of that product simply haven't been able to access it.

    So to be helpful we really need to know things like the physical size, the desired frame rate, whether a high QE is required, etc. I am assuming you really want the sensor rather than a camera.

    Again, no guarantees we can find your desired sensor or even that you can obtain it if it is found.

    A suggestion or two, however? It might be that if you called FLI: FLI Quality Cooled CCD and CMOS Cameras Home they might be willing/able to help you? Also, contacting Framos might be fruitful: https://www.framos.com/us/ ?

    Framos is, of course, a distributor for a lot of sensors - and FLI makes cameras for industry and science and as a result I'd expect them to have a very good idea as to what is available and from whom.
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    Default Re: Fast cmos sensor

    Thank you, OleCuss)

    Ideal sensor is 640x640 with a 5000 fps or higher - other parameters are not critical.
    At the end of last year, we managed to build an adaptive system based on the JetaCam19 camera (Kaya Instruments). This camera uses the sensor LUX19HS (Luxima Technology). Sensors of this company are used in other fast cameras, for example, in xiB-64 (Ximea), where LUX13HS stands.
    Now we have moved to the stage of developing a system without a ready-made camera in order to minimize the delay in obtaining an image from the sensor - getting a frame from the sensor without intermediaries.
    Before Kaya Instruments, Optronis and Mikrotron were considered, but now ready-made cameras are no longer suitable. The sensor is interesting.

 

 

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