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Thread: Data: How Much

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    Default Re: Data: How Much



    Apparently software binning for cmos cameras is the go in processing after bin1x1 capture, sgp can bin my asi1600 but doesn't specify if it's onboard "hardware" binning or software bining," hardware " yields no signal improvements, it just used to increase speeds and drops the camera to 10 bit
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    Default Re: Data: How Much

    The Panasonic 34230 sensor in the ASI1600 and QHY163 does not support hardware binning.
    All software binning does is add or average the pixels together and lower the resolution and shrink the image size.

    Hardware binning is pretty much standard on CCD sensors.
    It is only the very new, high end CMOS sensors that support hardware binning. The vast majority of CMOS sensors do not support hardware binning.
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    Default Re: Data: How Much

    Quote Originally Posted by KathyNS View Post
    My "normal" shoot is 88 minutes of total exposure time in LRGB, totalling 352Mb of raw data. If I am adding Ha, I add another 80 minutes, for 168 minutes, and another 256Mb, for a total of 608Mb. Sometimes I shoot more.

    My total time on target is limited by my cold tolerance right now. I am working on a project to complete the automation of my dome, which would allow me to shoot a lot more data. More is always better.
    So if I understand this correctly, it's not really time on target, it is data saved while on target?

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    Default Re: Data: How Much

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillrat View Post
    So if I understand this correctly, it's not really time on target, it is data saved while on target?
    I don't know how you got that conclusion from my comment.

    No, it really is time on target. How effective that time is depends on a few factors, but all things being equal, it is time, and therefore photons, that matter.

    The quantity of physical data depends on the sensor dimensions, the binning factor of the images, and the number of exposures. Thirty 1x1 frames of 120s each and 6 1x1 frames of 600s each will collect the same number of photons, but will take up 5x as much total disk space.
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    Default Re: Data: How Much

    Quote Originally Posted by KathyNS View Post
    I don't know how you got that conclusion from my comment.

    No, it really is time on target. How effective that time is depends on a few factors, but all things being equal, it is time, and therefore photons, that matter.

    The quantity of physical data depends on the sensor dimensions, the binning factor of the images, and the number of exposures. Thirty 1x1 frames of 120s each and 6 1x1 frames of 600s each will collect the same number of photons, but will take up 5x as much total disk space.
    Additionally, subs that you throw away because of inferior quality represent zero data even though they're taking up hard drive space.

    JT
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    Default Re: Data: How Much

    Isn't there a relationship of photons per MB of data? So it one type camera captures data at 40MB per minute and a different camera only captures 2 MB per minute.....

    I'm gonna go take up knitting!

    I'll never figure this out, thanks to all that posted, how do I close a thread?

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    Default Re: Data: How Much

    There are a bunch of variables, and camera selection covers several of them. Telescope selection covers more. Of all the variables, exposure time is the most important. Megabytes are the least important. Knowing that you have seven hours of exposure time tells me a lot about the quality of data. Knowing that you have 500 Mb of data tells me almost nothing about the quality.

    I can close the thread if you really want me to, but I sense continued confusion, and more discussion may shed light on it. This is a fruitful discussion and my inclination is to let it continue.
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    Default Re: Data: How Much

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillrat View Post
    Isn't there a relationship of photons per MB of data? So if one type of camera captures data at 40MB per minute and a different camera only captures 2 MB per minute.....
    In reading this sentence, to me, you are describing the capturing process of a video camera. Like we use for planetary/lunar imaging. With this type of AP, I'm capturing 100s if not 1000s of frames and my megabyte per file will increase based on how many frames of video this file contains. It still doesn't tell me the quality of the frames I captured.

    Now with long exposure AP, we take a single image at a time. It doesn't matter what the sensor captures. The file size from that camera will remain pretty constant whatever type of image I'm capturing. For example, if I take a dark frame that has captured zero photons, the file size from that image will be within 10% of an image of the Andromeda galaxy. So once again the file size has NOTHING to do with what the sensor has captured or not captured!

    I hope this helps,
    JT
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    Default Re: Data: How Much

    JT is right, the file size in bytes has nothing to do with what you have or haven't captured, particularly if you are shooting in your camera's raw format. All my 1x1 frames are 16,971,840 bytes, regardless of exposure time or whether they are lights, darks, or flats.
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    Default Re: Data: How Much

    Quote Originally Posted by jaetea View Post
    In reading this sentence, to me, you are describing the capturing process of a video camera. Like we use for planetary/lunar imaging. With this type of AP, I'm capturing 100s if not 1000s of frames and my megabyte per file will increase based on how many frames of video this file contains. It still doesn't tell me the quality of the frames I captured.

    Now with long exposure AP, we take a single image at a time. It doesn't matter what the sensor captures. The file size from that camera will remain pretty constant whatever type of image I'm capturing. For example, if I take a dark frame that has captured zero photons, the file size from that image will be within 10% of an image of the Andromeda galaxy. So once again the file size has NOTHING to do with what the sensor has captured or not captured!

    I hope this helps,
    JT
    i don't know why this is but i think most of us have seen this who have done any sort of image stacking/processing,i'm guessing that the way the data is layed out for an image every pixel already has a value weather it is bright,dark,pixels at a broad range ,it must take the same amount of information/memory to assign a bright pixel vs a dark pixel, my nikon d60 is 10.2 mega pixels and an image is 11.8mb ,my sony a7 is 24mega pixels and an image is 23.4mb, it works out about close to 1mb per megapixel so there must be some correspondence to pixel amount assigned to file size
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