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  1. #1
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    Default collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus



    pretty familiar with collimation on a defocused star to a point where i know what screw to push pull to adjust my defocused star to a concentrically star pattern, i feel that this technique can only go so far in accuracy ,atm my image train still seems a little tilted and has a bit of coma in one side of my images,this makes mosaics a problem especially 4 panels or more without cropping alot or using a large overlap

    wondering what are good collimation software to use?,anyone used Gold focus Plus Collimation ?

    GoldFocus Plus Focusing System

    where can i get a printable mask for a 12'' newt from ?
    scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"trust tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob
    cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7
    mounts : eq6 pro/eq8
    filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, Thousand Oaks Solar Filter.
    extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel

  2. #2
    yobbo89's Avatar
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    Default Re: collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus

    done a little reading on a few sites, decided to make a bahtinov mask as i cannot buy one for my size scope locally and use this technique (link below) and give it a look at with ccd inspector

    https://deepspaceplace.com/gso8rccollimate.php


    scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"trust tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob
    cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7
    mounts : eq6 pro/eq8
    filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, Thousand Oaks Solar Filter.
    extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel

  3. #3
    CamelHat's Avatar
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    Default Re: collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus

    Nice mask but is the Bahtinov mask not mostly for focusing, not collimation?

    The trouble with the star test is that you have 6 controls (1,2: main screw secondary and axial rotation, 3,4: secondary small screws, 5,6: primary screws) and a star pattern that is mostly influenced by how well centered it is in the FOV. So personally I think the star test is only for validation, not collimation.

    Do you not have a laser collimator or Cheshire? A sight tube is for controls 1,2, the laser and Cheshire will do 3,4 first then 5,6 separately. So I would try that instead of a star mask based collimation that mashes the effects of the individual controls up. If it's all mashed up how can you find the optimal settings of the individual controls. The goldfocus instructions don't say anything about how to collimate the individual sets of controls.
    ... Henk. Telescopes: 6" Mak-Newt (Comet Hunter), ES ED127CF, ES ED80, Zhumell Z12, Coulter Odyssey 10, AT6RC, Venture RX-7, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S, AVX, LXD55, Tiltall, Cameras: Fuji X-a1, Canon SX40, Xt, XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: Dob and camera barndoor trackers, afocal adapter, Dob with foldable base and Az/Alt setting circles, Accessories: SSAG, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: DSS, ImageMagick, PHD, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK

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  4. #4
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    Default Re: collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus

    The bahtinov mask will help you get a proper focus during imaging.
    It will not improve the collimation at all.

    Nice job on the mask by the way!

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  5. #5
    yobbo89's Avatar
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    Default Re: collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus

    good point, i do have a cheap Cheshire or what is known to be a cheshire and a laser collimator

    I have one of these
    https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/UPkAA...vw8/s-l300.jpg

    from what i've read this is apparently an actually Cheshire collimation tool ?? https://www.highpointscientific.com/...ar-fp260-1.jpg
    scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"trust tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob
    cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7
    mounts : eq6 pro/eq8
    filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, Thousand Oaks Solar Filter.
    extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel

  6. #6
    yobbo89's Avatar
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    Default Re: collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus

    Quote Originally Posted by kingclinton View Post
    The bahtinov mask will help you get a proper focus during imaging.
    It will not improve the collimation at all.

    Nice job on the mask by the way!
    thanks, my understanding is that if you have a reasonably collimated scope , with a slight tilt in the system (possibly from focuser slop or not perfect collimation ectt) then one side of your imaging frame would be out of focus which if you have a coma corrector it will make your stars less corrected in the corners thus tilting the imaging train to that direction should help aid in collimation

    shown in this image with a star diffraction from a bahtinov mask

    scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"trust tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob
    cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7
    mounts : eq6 pro/eq8
    filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, Thousand Oaks Solar Filter.
    extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel

  7. #7
    CamelHat's Avatar
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    Default Re: collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus

    Quote Originally Posted by yobbo89 View Post
    thanks, my understanding is that if you have a reasonably collimated scope , with a slight tilt in the system (possibly from focuser slop or not perfect collimation ectt) then one side of your imaging frame would be out of focus which if you have a coma corrector it will make your stars less corrected in the corners thus tilting the imaging train to that direction should help aid in collimation

    shown in this image with a star diffraction from a bahtinov mask

    The question still remains then, if you see that, how do you know which of the 6 controls to adjust? A laser or Cheshire will tell you exactly what to do whereas with a focusing mask you are guessing. And by the way how much work is it to position the system in various ways to get the Bahtinov pattern in all 4 corners and the center?

    Collimation will avoid such effects for the position in which the collimation tool was inserted in the focuser. If you collimate with the OTA horizontal and the focuser on top, if the focuser has slop and tilts when you image at a different angle with a camera weighing it down, the collimation will no longer be valid. Maybe you have to collimate the system in place after you framed your target, that way the collimation automatically compensates for tilt.
    ... Henk. Telescopes: 6" Mak-Newt (Comet Hunter), ES ED127CF, ES ED80, Zhumell Z12, Coulter Odyssey 10, AT6RC, Venture RX-7, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S, AVX, LXD55, Tiltall, Cameras: Fuji X-a1, Canon SX40, Xt, XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: Dob and camera barndoor trackers, afocal adapter, Dob with foldable base and Az/Alt setting circles, Accessories: SSAG, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: DSS, ImageMagick, PHD, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK

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    Default Re: collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus

    Quote Originally Posted by yobbo89 View Post
    i've read this is apparently an actually Cheshire collimation tool ?? https://www.highpointscientific.com/...ar-fp260-1.jpg
    Not all Cheshires are created equal. Some have a sight tube, some have cross hairs and some don't. I have one without cross hairs. It cannot be used to align the scondary, however it is useful to have if the secondary is so far out of whack that the return laser beam misses the secondary. In that case you can use it to adjust the secondary to see the primary in the center, then proceed with the laser as usual. You need one with cross hairs, the farpoint one does not have those.
    ... Henk. Telescopes: 6" Mak-Newt (Comet Hunter), ES ED127CF, ES ED80, Zhumell Z12, Coulter Odyssey 10, AT6RC, Venture RX-7, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S, AVX, LXD55, Tiltall, Cameras: Fuji X-a1, Canon SX40, Xt, XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: Dob and camera barndoor trackers, afocal adapter, Dob with foldable base and Az/Alt setting circles, Accessories: SSAG, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: DSS, ImageMagick, PHD, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK

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    Default Re: collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus

    yes make sense, i guess the above image might be a good technique for analysing your collimation after one uses a Cheshire ectt,i don't have focuser slop in my case as in all parts of the sky and merdian flips the stars are the same in all the images theres no weight shifting on the focuser,

    collimation has a been a little better with my new focuser upgrade i think i may have a problem with the loose fitting cheshire/laser collimator, or even i might need to check the collimation of the laser it'self.

    could it maybe be that my new focuser isn't correctly lined with the secondary ? and that i'm viewing is the outer region of coma from the scopes fov on the image that's not corrected too well ? hence one side shows more coma then the other ?

    does this make sense ?




    edit: ahah i don't that make sense lol if i was collimated my scopes fov should be directly equal on the cmos chip. ..
    scopes :gso/bintel f4 12"trust tube, bresser messier ar127s /skywatcher 10'' dob
    cameras : asi 1600mm-c/asi1600mm-c,asi120mc,prostar lp guidecam, nikkon d60, sony a7
    mounts : eq6 pro/eq8
    filters : 2'' astronomik lp/badder lrgb h-a,sII,oIII,h-b,Baader Solar Continuum, Thousand Oaks Solar Filter.
    extras : skywatcher f4 aplanatic cc, Baader MPCC MKIII Coma Corrector,Orion Field Flattener,zwo 1.25''adc.starlight maxi 2" 9x filter wheel

  10. #10
    CamelHat's Avatar
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    Default Re: collimation ,printable diy mask , gold focus

    You are confusing me, first you said you have coma on one side now you say that the stars all look the same.

    About centering the secondary, that's trickier than advertised. The reason is that one side of the secondary is closer than the other. As a result the secondary is only squared right for one viewing distance. If you move your eye further in the secondary view shifts away from the primary, if you move it further out it shifts towards thr primary.

    The effect of this is that the light bundle is skewed as you depict in your diagram. And when it is skewed more to one side then you will get more optical defects from that side. So when you square the secondary (the dreaded main screw) you must position your retina exactly at the sensor plane. Only then will you be able to square the secondary such that the sensor is evenly lit.

    The reason why I know this so well is because of my Mak Newt where there is no main screw and I noticed that one side of my M31 image apparently received more light than the rest. It took me a while to figure it out but that was part of it. A sight tube may turn out to be very useful for you.
    ... Henk. Telescopes: 6" Mak-Newt (Comet Hunter), ES ED127CF, ES ED80, Zhumell Z12, Coulter Odyssey 10, AT6RC, Venture RX-7, Celestron Skymaster 20x80, Mounts and tripod: Losmandy G11S, AVX, LXD55, Tiltall, Cameras: Fuji X-a1, Canon SX40, Xt, XSi, T6, ELPH 100HS, DIY: Dob and camera barndoor trackers, afocal adapter, Dob with foldable base and Az/Alt setting circles, Accessories: SSAG, Plossls, Barlows, Telrad, laser collimators (Seben LK1, Z12, Howie Glatter), Cheshire, 2 Orion RACIs 8x50, Software: DSS, ImageMagick, PHD, Nebulosity, Photo Gallery, Gimp, CHDK

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