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Thread: Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem

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    Default Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem



    Hi!

    I have a LX90 scope, and a EM1 Olympus m43rds camera. Following the advice of this forum, recently I bought a Meade T-mount adapter and a camera adapter to mount my camera to the LX90. The whole combo looks great, rock solid.

    However, I made several tests with hundreds of images, and I didn't expect this: the only way to get sharp images (as a terrestrial day scope) is to go at least at 1/500s, AND use the camera timer AND its mirror lookup (antishock). The camera does not have an electronic shutter. Of course, this renders the combo unusable, since at 1/500s only the moon...

    Do you have similar problems? How did you fix it?

    Thanks!!

    L.

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    Default Re: Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem

    Let me see if i understand your question....You are testing during the day your setup correct? When you say sharp, do you mean focused, or do you mean properly exposed?
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    luisflorit's Avatar
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    Default Re: Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem

    Yes, I tested during the day, precisely to see which is blurring caused by the setup.

    By sharp I mean without blur. The blur is caused by the camera curtain movement at exposure time.
    It has been focused manually quite accurately, and shooting at 1/500s removes the blur.

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    Default Re: Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem

    When I started in AP, I tested my set-up during the day, like you have, to understand how it worked when I could see everything.
    It was very helpful to me, and I'm sorry it's got you stumped on something.
    I didn't have this kind of problem, but I may be interpreting your question one way and not the other...

    Photographing through a telescope anything near the ground will involve some atmospheric distortion and convection - could the blurriness be coming from that?
    If, at 1/500 you are capturing the ripples fast enough to make them stop, then this won't be a focusing issue.
    In all of my test photos done during the day, rippling was plain to see. Inevitable.

    Did you change the target of the telescope between shots at higher and slower speeds?
    The depth of field of a telescope, when focused at a "terrestrial" distance like 1 kilometer, is only a few hundred meters deep. Changing target means changing focus.

    If the problem persists with or without the mirror Lock-up activated, then the problem is not the mirror motion. I think it's something else.
    How is the telescope mounted?
    If the telescope is mounted on a go-to or a tracking equatorial mount, make sure it is powered off for your daytime viewing.

    Have you used any focusing aid tools, like a Bahtinov mask?
    I once ruined hundreds of pictures by leaving that in.
    -Steven F.

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    Default

    For long (multi second) DSO exposures, you can always try the "hat trick" - put a black card in front of the scope, start the exposure, wait a few seconds for any vibration to die down, then move the card out of the way to let the light in...
    BABOafrica, jaetea and rgbtxus like this.

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    luisflorit (07-03-2015)

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    Default Re: Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem

    Would it be possible for you to set it up to take bursts, say 5 or 6 1 second exposures, and see if the later ones are less blurry than the earlier ones? This may give you an idea of how long the vibration (if that is what is causing your issues) takes to die down.
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    Default Re: Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem

    I think you may be interpreting overexposure as blurriness. If The specs are for an EM1 camera of the newest design, it has no mirror to flip, thus no need for mirror lockup. It has both an electronic and and a membrane shutter. I would doubt that the membrane shutter who's mass is but tiny fractions of a gram would be able to affect the mass of the camera. Olympus engineers would certainly have taken this into consideration when designing the camera.
    Certainly the Moon and terrestrial objects are going to require low ISO settings in the 100 to 200 range with shutter speeds below 1/250th seconds, however low surface brightness objects like nebula and galaxies will require ISO settings of 800 or more with shutter speeds in the minutes not sub seconds. Guiding of the mount will be required to keep stars round and tack sharp for multi-minute exposures. Try at first taking some night time exposures at ISO 800 and 15 seconds shutter speed and check your results. Continue to increase the shutter time until you get star trailing or oblong stars. You may even have star trailing even at the 15 second exposure time due to the focal length of the LX90 optics if it is not tracking precisely.

    Daytime image settings do not correlate to night time settings and cannot be used as a baseline. Overexposure during daytime shooting could be mistaken for blurriness.

    JJ
    Last edited by Johnny J.; 07-03-2015 at 03:17 AM.
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    Default Re: Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem

    Yes, that was my idea too for testing during the day.

    No, definitely my problem is not caused by atmospheric distortion. I fixed the targer at 10 meters, manually focused with zoom aid, and never moved the target.

    Without mirror lock, the images are all horrible at any shutter speed. With mirror lock, at 1/500 or faster were ok, but not slower.

    My scope was off. And maybe this is the problem! Maybe the gears are kind of "loose" or something?

    Thanks!

    L.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparweb View Post
    When I started in AP, I tested my set-up during the day, like you have, to understand how it worked when I could see everything.
    It was very helpful to me, and I'm sorry it's got you stumped on something.
    I didn't have this kind of problem, but I may be interpreting your question one way and not the other...

    Photographing through a telescope anything near the ground will involve some atmospheric distortion and convection - could the blurriness be coming from that?
    If, at 1/500 you are capturing the ripples fast enough to make them stop, then this won't be a focusing issue.
    In all of my test photos done during the day, rippling was plain to see. Inevitable.

    Did you change the target of the telescope between shots at higher and slower speeds?
    The depth of field of a telescope, when focused at a "terrestrial" distance like 1 kilometer, is only a few hundred meters deep. Changing target means changing focus.

    If the problem persists with or without the mirror Lock-up activated, then the problem is not the mirror motion. I think it's something else.
    How is the telescope mounted?
    If the telescope is mounted on a go-to or a tracking equatorial mount, make sure it is powered off for your daytime viewing.

    Have you used any focusing aid tools, like a Bahtinov mask?
    I once ruined hundreds of pictures by leaving that in.

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    Default Re: Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem

    Quote Originally Posted by jerryTheC View Post
    For long (multi second) DSO exposures, you can always try the "hat trick" - put a black card in front of the scope, start the exposure, wait a few seconds for any vibration to die down, then move the card out of the way to let the light in...
    Yes, it seems this will be my only hope. Yet, this makes any photography between 1s and 1/500s impossible. So it's the moon or dso.

    Thanks,

    L.

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    Default Re: Shutter shock, timer and astrophotography problem

    Quote Originally Posted by jetogill View Post
    Would it be possible for you to set it up to take bursts, say 5 or 6 1 second exposures, and see if the later ones are less blurry than the earlier ones? This may give you an idea of how long the vibration (if that is what is causing your issues) takes to die down.
    Maybe a good test, yes. But my camera closes the curtain for each shot, it does not have an electronic curtain. Cameras with electronic curtains don't have my problem.

    Thanks,

    L.

 

 
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