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Thread: CLS-CCD filter on a full spectrum camera

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    But is there an option in the menu somewhere in any programs that you can change to either respond to or ignore WB?
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    Default Re: CLS-CCD filter on a full spectrum camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Jameedon View Post
    It'd be nice if WB was applied to raw photos in Picasa so when I'm looking through them for any that should be deleted before stacking them, I could see the nebulosity better because now I pretty much can only see the stars and the rest of the photo is red. Do you know if Picasa would apply WB to raw photos? I made a custom WB for my full spectrum camera but I never use it...
    It's not necessarily a WB that you are looking for, but rather a Screen/Histogram Stretch needed to bring up the very dim elements such as Nebulae. But, that is precisely what Post Processing such as PixInsight or Photoshop is all about. Pre-Processing review of the individual Sub-Frames is mainly limited to 1) reviewing the Stars for signs of Bad Tracking (trails, ovals/oblongs, duplicates); and 2) looking for intrusions that ruin an image (airplanes, satellites, bugs, clouds, dew). Unless you are imaging a Very Bright Nebula (Orion), you shouldn't have much visible color or detail in your nebulosity on individual sub-frames. As to whether Picassa can apply the embedded WB data to the Screen View of an Image as you are "Browsing" through Images, that'd be something to look in the Picassa Help or FAQ files (each Image Browser is unique). But, if you are looking for Picassa (or any Image Tool) to Apply a WB to the Image and Save the resulting Image BEFORE sending the Images through DSS (or PI or PS) for Calibration and Stacking, then you are "destroying" the "RAW-ness" of the Image and saving Lesser Quality Data to the resulting JPG or TIF file.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jameedon View Post
    Can WB be applied to raw photos when I'm capturing them in BYEOS?
    WB is recorded as a data item in all RAW image files. But it cannot be "applied" in a RAW image file without destroying the "RAW-ness" of that file.
    BYE is not displaying a RAW image, but rather the accompanying JPEG image embedded in the RAW file as a "thumbnail / sidecar" by the Camera itself.
    BYE, by design, is not an Image Processing App, and therefore the "tools" offered within BYE are limited to "Zoom" and a "Histogram Curves Tool" (neither of which record permanently to the Image File).
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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by seigell View Post
    In most cases, the Nosepiece end of the T-Adapter or the Field Flattener or the Coma Corrector has 2in Filter Threads. If you are using a standard T-Adapter and SCT Visual Back, you can usually place a 2in Filter on your T-Adapter. If you are using a SCT-to-T-Thread Back then you are out-of-luck for that placement...
    You're right, a 2" filter does screw right into the end of a T-adapter for my ES102ED but I was looking for an adapter that screws onto the focuser instead of sliding inside it, but it looks like one doesn't exist so I was looking into having one made and I can't think of how to incorporate a 2" filter in it. As far as my 8" Edge, I have a 2" back to T-adapter that takes 2" filters but I never use it anymore because I always use the Edge focal reducer and that makes the spacing between the FR and sensor critical that only can be achieved with the Edge adapter which doesn't accept 2" filters. I guess I solution to both problems is the EOS clip in style filter.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by seigell View Post
    It's not necessarily a WB that you are looking for, but rather a Screen/Histogram Stretch needed to bring up the very dim elements such as Nebulae. But, that is precisely what Post Processing such as PixInsight or Photoshop is all about. Pre-Processing review of the individual Sub-Frames is mainly limited to 1) reviewing the Stars for signs of Bad Tracking (trails, ovals/oblongs, duplicates); and 2) looking for intrusions that ruin an image (airplanes, satellites, bugs, clouds, dew). Unless you are imaging a Very Bright Nebula (Orion), you shouldn't have much visible color or detail in your nebulosity on individual sub-frames. As to whether Picassa can apply the embedded WB data to the Screen View of an Image as you are "Browsing" through Images, that'd be something to look in the Picassa Help or FAQ files (each Image Browser is unique). But, if you are looking for Picassa (or any Image Tool) to Apply a WB to the Image and Save the resulting Image BEFORE sending the Images through DSS (or PI or PS) for Calibration and Stacking, then you are "destroying" the "RAW-ness" of the Image and saving Lesser Quality Data to the resulting JPG or TIF file. WB is recorded as a data item in all RAW image files. But it cannot be "applied" in a RAW image file without destroying the "RAW-ness" of that file. BYE is not displaying a RAW image, but rather the accompanying JPEG image embedded in the RAW file as a "thumbnail / sidecar" by the Camera itself. BYE, by design, is not an Image Processing App, and therefore the "tools" offered within BYE are limited to "Zoom" and a "Histogram Curves Tool" (neither of which record permanently to the Image File).
    I was going off of Phil's reply where he said software gives the option to either ignore or apply white balance, so I was asking if there was an option to apply WB to raw photos because now it ignores it. I didn't mean apply it so I could save it, I know thats no good, I was only thinking it would be better for a visual use to see the photo with corrected color. When you're looking at photos that were taken with a full spectrum camera and the red isn't corrected, the dimmer stars tend to be hidden and I think the dim stars are best for determining if there is any trailing since the brightest stars can easily be overexposed. Plus it's nice to see an image with corrected color because you can better determine if nebulosity is recording as good as you'd like. And chromatic aberrations can hide.
    -Jamee
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    Default Re: CLS-CCD filter on a full spectrum camera

    You don't need to apply a WB in order to perform a Screen / Histogram Stretch, which will show you the Dim Stars and Areas of Nebulosity.
    Various Image Capture Apps such as BYE have functionality to perform a visual Screen Stretch immediately after the Image has downloaded, or you can do the same in the Image Editing or AP Image Processing App of your choice.
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    Default Re: CLS-CCD filter on a full spectrum camera

    I know what you are saying but I'm not sure your understanding what I'm saying. Right now I'm only focused towards the program Picasa because thats the best program I can find to be able to look at the raw photos to delete the rejects but if I could only see the photos with the applied white balance on the raw photos it would help me out greatly. I don't do any editing in Picasa, only inspecting them. Heres a raw photo of the Horsehead nebula that I'd look at in Picasa.
    IC434_LIGHT_180s_800iso_+43f_00668stdev_20140101-01h54m42s133ms (2).jpg
    Now that you see it too, don't you think it would be hard to inspect. That red hides everything.
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    Default Re: CLS-CCD filter on a full spectrum camera

    What are the Exposure details for this image ?? And the Light Pollution / Moonlight details ??

    The RED Channel is actually a bit Clipped, per the Histogram that I get from the downloaded JPG from your posting.

    This is a JPG, so obviously it HAS been Processed - by you in Picassa or by your Camera before download ??
    I've used Picassa on occasion in the past, but it isn't my choice App.
    But then, I decided that as Photography was a significant hobby that I'd pay some money for my Image Browsing and Editting App(s).
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    Default Re: CLS-CCD filter on a full spectrum camera

    To me this looks like a typical cls ccd image taken with auto white balance on in a really badly light polluted area. In fact this is what subs look like when I take them from my yard, I'm surrounded by 3 car dealerships and a super wallmart. It takes 90 seconds to clear the red channel from the shadows with a CLS CCD at iso 1600 in my area, and the data captured in 90 seconds is worthless. That image taken above will give you the same types of problems, if you have to absolutely work with that data for imaging I would recommend dropping the iso to 800 or 400 and take lots of subs. When I drive out to my normal imaging site 15 miles from here the cls ccd can expose for between 900 and 1500 seconds to clear the red channel from the shadows region of the histogram, in fact I almost don't need the filter out there but it helps with emission nebula. If you have a darker location nearby to shoot from, take advantage! In the mean time however I understand it is important to learn your equipment and tighten up your guiding skills. The cls ccd does make it really hard to see stars in live view, in fact you will only see the brightest stars which in my opinion makes it possible to achieve better focus than usual. When you read that the red and blue channels were out of focus on yahoo, they actually just meant that those channels were not aligned properly, it is true that the cls ccd is a pain to calibrate properly but if you follow this procedure you will have perfect white balance no matter what every time you process an image .... Accurate White Balance Adjustments in Photoshop - Photo Blog Stop
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    Default Re: CLS-CCD filter on a full spectrum camera

    I use IrfanView for browsing/reviewing my CR2 files. Like most (all?) such programs it has an option for RAW files to apply or not the in-camera white balance.
    So if you use a custom white balance in-camera to compensate for the CLS it will be honoured when you open up the images for viewing...

    Picassa should apply the in-camera white balance too.

    You need to create a custom white balance in-camera by following the instructions in the manual, with the cls filter in place.
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    Default Re: CLS-CCD filter on a full spectrum camera

    Quote Originally Posted by seigell View Post
    What are the Exposure details for this image ?? And the Light Pollution / Moonlight details ??

    The RED Channel is actually a bit Clipped, per the Histogram that I get from the downloaded JPG from your posting.

    This is a JPG, so obviously it HAS been Processed - by you in Picassa or by your Camera before download ??
    I've used Picassa on occasion in the past, but it isn't my choice App.
    But then, I decided that as Photography was a significant hobby that I'd pay some money for my Image Browsing and Editting App(s).
    The photo is 180sec @ ISO 800 with an Astronomik IR blocking clip filter, the light pollution wasn't too bad and there was no moon. What I did to get the JPEG file was in Picasa I picked an untouched RAW photo and went up to the menu and clicked file->save a copy, even though the original was a .CR2 the copy is saved as JPEG, then I had to reduce the JPEG's file size to 60% of original.
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