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Thread: Astrophotography with Azimuth Mounts

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    Default Astrophotography with Azimuth Mounts



    We get a lot of inquiries from people who want to photograph with an azimuth mount. I thought that I would document my experience with azimuth photography and hope others will do likewise. Hopefully the quality of this thread will be sufficient for a sticky so we can easily answer the question each time it comes up. My purpose here is not to discourage anyone from photography with an azimuth mount but simply to describe the techniques needed as well as their limitations and leave up to each individual to decide if they wish to travel the road of AZ photography.

    Astrophotography with azimuth mounts. Yes, you can but field rotation, mount movement, and the location of objects in the sky will be your major limiting factors. Here is a link to my flickr sight showing what can be done by a novice with entry level goto mounts (SkyWatcher SynScan AZ and NexStar 4/5SE mounts). Flickr: Sxinias' Photostream Here is another link showing what an experienced person can accomplish with an advanced azimuth photography system: http://www.astrotx.com/Messier%20Images%201-36.htm

    Field rotation. If you limit your photography to areas of the sky approximately 30 degrees distant from your zenith, you can have exposure times of 30 seconds or more with 0.10 degrees or less field rotation (0.10 degrees of rotation will not be noticeable in a photograph). This essentially means except for objects on your southern or northern horizon stay 30 degrees away from your zenith. For an excellent explanation of field rotation, see: http://www.astrotx.com/Field%20Rotation.htm

    AZ mount tracking movements. AZ mounts can track objects and, if properly set up, keep them literally centered in the eyepiece for hours at least as far as the human eye can tell. With a photograph, the story is different. AZ mounts constantly make small adjustments in azimuth and altitude as they track an object. While not noticable with the eye, they produce movement that result with stars looking like jagged lines. You will need to experiment with your AZ mount to determine how long of an exposure you can make with it before mount movement ruins the shot. For example, with my SkyWatcher SynScan AZ mount (essentially the same as the Celestron SLT mount) the time is 20 seconds if I want 90% of my exposures to be acceptable or 30 seconds if I am willing to discard about half my exposures. The extra ten seconds of exposure time sometimes makes a 50% failure rate acceptable. With the more expensive 4/5SE mount the statistics result in a 30 second exposure for 90% keepers and 45 to 60 seconds for 50% keepers. Note: to get these times, I take pains to make sure the mount is orthogonal to the plane of the earth and use a reticle eyepiece to center alignment stars. While eyeballing these parameters is good enough for visual work, it is not for photography.

    Exposure times and stacking Often you will read that stacking many short exposures produces the same results as one long exposure with the same exposure time. This is true but not true at the same time. There is a minimum exposure time where this works; below that things get iffy as the shots are so underexposed. Actually it's not exposure time but the exposure that is important. When you are doing 30 second and shorter exposures, only so much information can be captured. For bright objects like M8, M16, M20, M42, etc. significant information can be obtained in a short exposure. But for very dim objects like M51, the shot can be too underexposed for stacking programs to recognize enough stars needed to stack. Short exposures require a lot of shots ... to get one hours total exposure time with 20 second exposures, you will need to take over 200 shots to have a statistical probability of enough good shots to equal one hour.

    Unlike visual work, in photography the focal ratio of a telescope is important NOT ITS APERTURE. Two telescopes of the same aperture but having different focal ratios. The telescope with the lower focal ratio will have the brighter image and shorter exposure times while the telescope with the larger focal ratio will have a larger but dimer image and the longer exposure time. For two telescopes with the same focal ratio but different apertures, both telescopes will have the same exposure times but the telescope with the larger aperture will have the larger image because it has the longer focal length. For azimuth photography, telescopes with low focal ratios are better as they can capture more information in the short exposure times that are available.

    Your camera's ISO setting also comes into play. With 20 second exposures, low ISO settings often produce shots too under exposed for stacking programs. This can be countered by using a high ISO setting. I use 1600 and this produces noise that detracts from my photos. I use a SCT which is a f/10 telescope. An f/7 telescope would almost double the exposure efficiency giving approximately the same exposure at 800ISO without the extra noise. May SCT owners simply use a focal reducer to shorten the focal length of their telescopes and lower the focal ratio to f6.3 (a good focal reducer cost new from $60 to $100)

    Time to expose. Taking 200 exposures at say 20 seconds duration per exposure equates to 4000 seconds of time. But, there is a dead time between shots that increases this to 5000 seconds of time. However, you really need to let the camera's sensor cool a bit between shots. I use 15 seconds which results in 7000 seconds needed for 4000 seconds of time. After that comes the darks which for 200 exposures can easily add another 1000 seconds of time. All in all for an hour's total exposure you are looking at approximately 1 hr 40 minutes to 2 hrs 15 minutes of camera work. However, keep in mind, AZ photography depends upon the location of the object in the sky and the earth is constantly rotating .... this has a major impact upon how much time you have to capture the object as the earth rotates 15 degrees every hour. (Note: this is written from the perspective of using a DSLR)

    The influence of atmosphere and an object's position in the sky has a big impact with AZ photography. Keep in mind the earth is rotating as you work. For AZ photography, you have to stay about 30 degrees from the zenith or, except for objects on the northern or southern horizon, essentially 30 degrees away from your meridian. To get 30 seconds of exposure time for objects on your meridian, they need to be almost on the southern or northern horizon. This means if you start with an object in the east it needs to be fairly low on the horizon when you start as it will be constantly approaching your meridian as your photograph and the time you have for exposing will become shorter and dependent upon its altitude can become very short ... a few seconds at best. If you start with an object to the west, it will be setting out of sight. Since you can not photograph near the zenith, you are shooting through a lot of atmosphere which prevents images from being as sharp as they could be. Photography with an equatorial mount does not have these restrictions. You can start in the east and go most of the night with an object. You can also photograph objects high in the sky where the influence of the atmosphere is at a minimum.


    Time to process photos. With 200 to 400 exposures, stacking programs will need a two to four hours processing time to stack. This time is also dependent upon your computer. A computer with lots of memory and a fast chip will take less time. After stacking, you will then need to process the image with a processing program such as photoshop elements, CS5, PhotoPaint, Gimp, etc.

    I am not trying to discourage anyone from using an azimuth mount but did want to give you a brief description of the process and techniques and limitations. Keep in mind, with an equatorial mount one simply does not go out at night, point their telescope at the sky and snap away. There are issues there too but you are not limited by very short exposures times or the position of objects in the sky.
    Last edited by sxinias; 01-26-2013 at 12:55 PM. Reason: spelling; added field rotation link and link to advanced photos
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    iOptron ZEQ25 mount; SkyWatcher SynScan AZ GOTO Mount;
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    hello
    thanks man,
    great pictures,,,
    i liked (North American Nebula)...its nice.

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    Many Newtonians such as the Celestron NexStar 130SLT do not have sufficient back focus to use a Digital SLR. One member modified his 130SLT to accept a DSLR. Here is a link to his thread describing his modification: How to correct Celestron Nexstar 130 slt focus for Astrophotography
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    Joe, thank you for the nice mention in your post. Your images are really nice and I'm very much impressed with your Sagittarius Star Field. I think a lot of folks figure that imaging is this extremely hard process and while it can ultimately become such, very adequate images can be produced with an alt/az scope and modestly priced camera. I originally developed my website as a place to put my images but over time I decided to try and show the beginning imager that one can produce images with a little time and effort. Glad to see we at traveling down a similar path. You are providing a nicely detailed set of information with your post.

    Terry
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    Beautiful images, showing that an Alt-Az mount is not a barrier to great astrophotography, thank you

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    Default Re: Astrophotography with Azimuth Mounts

    As a newbie to Astronomy, this was a great read and I'm hoping my ETX-125 will at least meet my minimum expectations for astrophotography. It's alt-az, and I hadn't realized that it wouldn't move at a steady speed while tracking an object as it certainly sounded like it was pretty consistent. I'm hoping in a few more posts that I'll be able to see how your photos turned out :P

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    Default Re: Astrophotography with Azimuth Mounts

    The ETX 125 is a great telescope for visual work. It has a focal ratio of f/15 which is not the best for photography. You should be able to capture many of the brighter objects such as some open clusters and the brighter nebula. A focal reducer will help considerably. With a web camera, the moon, Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars will all be good subjects. I believe that the ETX 125 also has a wedge and can be used in the equatorial mode.

    The EXT mount as well as Celestron's SLT and SE mounts are great for visual work. Objects appear to remain dead steady to the eye. However, a different story is captured by a camera. Fortunately, they can remain steady enough for very short exposures.
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    Default Re: Astrophotography with Azimuth Mounts

    What a great read. I too am newbius maximus, and reading the post and looking at the wonderful site of Terry's? so much suddenly became clear. I mean even that explanation of field rotation was so simple to follow, even I got it . I love enlightenment, such a buzz. Thanks. Ps looks like one of those polarie mounts might be a low cost way of tracking. might not be ideal but better than my alt. Hmmm.
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    Default Re: Astrophotography with Azimuth Mounts

    John,

    I use a the same Skywatcher mount as you have on your 127 MAK for azimuth photography but use a SCT which is faster. You can do a lot of photography with your existing equipment. With a 0.63 focal reducer on your MAK, you can photograph a lot of objects... enough to keep you busy for a while. While they will not win any photograph of the year awards, they can be very good; see: Flickr: Sxinias' Photostream

    While I am a advocate for azimuth mount photography, I am not an ostrich with my head in the sand. A equatorial mount has many advantages in comparison to an azimuth mount. In the world of astrophotography, the mount is by far the most important component. Use your existing equipment and save for a good German Equatorial Mount.
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    Default Re: Astrophotography with Azimuth Mounts

    Thank you sxinias. If I can one day do deep sky 20 % of what I see on your link That will be a great day indeed. To think I can wow my grandkids with my great moon pics now, imagine what they will think when i finally get a pic of m42. Now I have my new dslr (my first) I cant wait to start learning. Speaking of Orion , Is there any way I can get even a weak image of it with what I have now? Using stacking software and suchlike of course. Would appreciate your thoughts.
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