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  1. #1
    Sam Wormley's Avatar
    Sam Wormley Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required




    Galaxy mix: No dark matter required
    http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...atter_required
    New ultraviolet observations suggest dwarf galaxies may form without dark matter. The
    findings have implications for the early universe.

  2. #2
    Yousuf Khan's Avatar
    Yousuf Khan Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required

    Sam Wormley wrote:

    Fascinating, but not at all surprising, to me at least. I also posted an
    article just a few days ago about Ultra-Compact Dwarf galaxies from the
    early universe where a Dark Matter model not only doesn't fit, it would
    actually describe the exact opposite of what is actually seen there. A
    fluidic universe is the proper model.

    Here's the thread on UCD's. I wonder how Mr. Gisse is going to spin this
    one?

    http://groups.google.com/group/sci.a...bl67+OR+yjkhan
    or,
    http://tinyurl.com/cwtdj3

    Yousuf Khan

  3. #3
    dkelvey@hotmail.com's Avatar
    dkelvey@hotmail.com Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required

    On Feb 18, 11:35 pm, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Hi
    I recall that recent studies seem to indicate that the dark matter
    seems
    to be related to the black holes at the centers of the galaxies. If
    this is
    true, it may be that the dark matter isn't really particles at all, it
    is a distortion
    of time/space caused by the singularity of the black hole.
    It may still be some type of particle created by the matter falling
    into the
    black holes. We have always assumed that inertial mass and gravity
    are two attributes of all particles. It may be that the dark matter
    particles
    have gravity but not inertial mass. The distribution may be simply
    their
    orbits around the mass of the galaxy. The orbits defined the rules of
    the
    speed of light and there mutual attraction, rather than inertial and
    gravity.
    Dwight

  4. #4
    john190209's Avatar
    john190209 Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required

    On Feb 20, 12:20 am, YKhan <yjk...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Are these the Black Holes that form because so much
    matter packs together that it crushes itself?
    Does it not occur to you that given all the
    other things wrong with that picture- galaxy
    rotation curves, stars still surrounding central 'BH's
    after 12 billion years, jets with HEPs pouring out,
    etc etc, that we are totally full of shit with the whole
    Black Hole thing?
    I don't think we really have a good enough
    handle on gravity to extrapolate to anywhere,
    let alone matter and antimatter particles
    etc etc . Do you?

    john

  5. #5
    Sam Wormley's Avatar
    Sam Wormley Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required

    john190209 wrote:


    John, the understood laws of physics are not contradicted by the
    observation... Some newly discovered phenomena are exciting and
    the fruitful tools of physics including relativity, quantum mechanics,
    thermodynamics, and others... help us to understand nature's workings.

    We have learned thru calculation, theory and observation that for
    collapsing masses between say 0.6 and 1.44 solar masses that electron
    degeneracy pressure halts further collapse. Between about 1.44 and 2.9
    solar masses, neutrons play a similar role. Above 2.9 solar masses,
    matter collapsed in behind its Schwarzschild radius... and is no longer
    available to us other than gravitation, charge and angular momentum.

    It appears that matter is crushed without limit.

    Jet don't pour out of a black hole, but are formed near the black
    hole by tremendous magnetic fields, temperatures and relativistic
    velocities associated with in falling matter and accretion disks.

    The physics is a lot more robust than you might imagine, John.



  6. #6
    anandsr21@gmail.com's Avatar
    anandsr21@gmail.com Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required

    Stop wasting your time. Eric is convinced that DM is the true picture
    of the universe and you cannot reason with that.

    I had once got him to admit that MOND does explain Galaxies very well
    although it does not work well at bigger scales.

    But then he explained it away as an artifact of DM. I don't understand
    how can anybody assume a matter to have zero degrees of freedom. If
    any equation with a single global free parameter can explain all
    galaxy rotation based on just the Baryonic Mass then how can DM be
    responsible for anything.

    -anand

  7. #7
    anandsr21@gmail.com's Avatar
    anandsr21@gmail.com Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required

    On Apr 7, 2:49 am, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:


    How do you observe the Density and Temperature at the Galaxy level.

    If it has temperature then it should be fairly easy to detect as any
    object with temperature higher than Absolute Zero will give of some
    radiation. That is why we call it the CDM model in that the DM is cold
    at Absolute Zero. There is no degree of freedom there.

    And it is always modeled to have a uniform density to give exactly the
    kind of observation that is predicted by MOND. Which really is having
    no freedom at all as the baryons are deciding where the DM will be
    through MOND.


    It is a complaint against the thinking that DM can somehow give MOND
    phenomenology.
    It cannot period.

    For the record I am not against DM (cold or hot). Its just that MOND
    does not allow it at Galactic levels.
    I also don't think TeVeS is in any way a good theory it is just trying
    to put MOND phenomenology into a theory, which will not work.

    We will have to get a theory from the first principles. Recovering the
    MOND phenomenology at Galactic levels is an additional test.

    I am not saying that GR is wrong, it could be that we don't understand
    it very well. The LQG guys are trying to use GR at the quantum level.
    But the current form does not give MOND which is a fatal problem.

    Till we get a good enough theory, trying to answer any cosmological
    questions is meaning less.
    In essence, Cosmologists are just blundering in the dark, and wasting
    there time. I don't know why they don't do something constructive like
    trying to find a theory that does work, rather than wasting their time
    predicting the age of the universe without even knowing how mass
    moves.

    -anand


  8. #8
    anandsr21@gmail.com's Avatar
    anandsr21@gmail.com Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required

    On Apr 7, 2:49 am, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:


    How do you observe the Density and Temperature at the Galaxy level.

    If it has temperature then it should be fairly easy to detect as any
    object with temperature higher than Absolute Zero will give of some
    radiation. That is why we call it the CDM model in that the DM is cold
    at Absolute Zero. There is no degree of freedom there.

    And it is always modeled to have a uniform density to give exactly the
    kind of observation that is predicted by MOND. Which really is having
    no freedom at all as the baryons are deciding where the DM will be
    through MOND.


    It is a complaint against the thinking that DM can somehow give MOND
    phenomenology.
    It cannot period.

    For the record I am not against DM (cold or hot). Its just that MOND
    does not allow it at Galactic levels.
    I also don't think TeVeS is in any way a good theory it is just trying
    to put MOND phenomenology into a theory, which will not work.

    We will have to get a theory from the first principles. Recovering the
    MOND phenomenology at Galactic levels is an additional test.

    I am not saying that GR is wrong, it could be that we don't understand
    it very well. The LQG guys are trying to use GR at the quantum level.
    But the current form does not give MOND which is a fatal problem.

    Till we get a good enough theory, trying to answer any cosmological
    questions is meaning less.
    In essence, Cosmologists are just blundering in the dark, and wasting
    there time. I don't know why they don't do something constructive like
    trying to find a theory that does work, rather than wasting their time
    predicting the age of the universe without even knowing how mass
    moves.

    -anand


  9. #9
    anandsr21@gmail.com's Avatar
    anandsr21@gmail.com Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required

    On Apr 7, 2:49 am, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:


    So you don't agree that all known galaxy types are modelled well with
    MOND.
    Can I know an instance of types that have been proved to not work with
    MOND.
    Or even one which have not been attempted to be explained by MOND.
    I am sure it will be a good pointer for Dr. Stacy McGaugh.

    regards,
    -anand

  10. #10
    anandsr21@gmail.com's Avatar
    anandsr21@gmail.com Guest

    Default Galaxy mix: No dark matter required

    On Apr 7, 2:49 am, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:


    So you don't agree that all known galaxy types are modelled well with
    MOND.
    Can I know an instance of types that have been proved to not work with
    MOND.
    Or even one which have not been attempted to be explained by MOND.
    I am sure it will be a good pointer for Dr. Stacy McGaugh.

    regards,
    -anand

 

 

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